The Fit2Fat2Fit Experience Podcast Episode 171 with Thom King


Intro:

What’s up everyone? Drew here from Fit2Fat2Fit and this is the Fit2Fat2Fit Experience Podcast. Thank you guys for tuning in today, each and every week. I really appreciate you guys support and love with the Podcast. For those of you who don’t know me, hopefully you do and you follow me on other Social Media platforms @Fit2Fat2Fit. You know, most people know me from my Fit2Fat2Fit journey that I did back in 2011, which is crazy that it’s been that long! Yes, I was the trainer that intentionally got fat on purpose and gained 75 pounds in six months and then lost it again. I wrote a book which became a New York Times best seller and then had a couple of seasons of a T.V. show on A&E called Fit2Fat2Fit. Since then I have kind of transitioned over to keto and teaching people about the ketogenic lifestyle. I sell a lot of digital content and do a lot of speaking engagements. If you are just tuning in and this is your first episode, this is me. *laughing* There is a lot more to me than just that. If you want to get to know me a little bit better, feel free to go back and listen to some old episodes. I put a lot of stuff out there that is pretty personal, but a lot of it is mostly based on the ketogenic diet. What I try to do is bring in the mental and emotional side of transformation that I don’t think a lot of people are talking about in the fitness industry. We kind of have a good mix of the physical stuff that is important, like diets and nutrition and exercises and the keto diet. We talk about macros and calories and the science behind all this. But I also bring on experts to talk about the mental and emotional side and mindset. I have a wide variety of guests on the Podcast. Hopefully at least some of the Podcast episodes resonate with you and you have learned something from them. I know I have for sure. Today’s episode is with a guy named Tom King. I am going to tell you about Tom King in just a second. He is the owner of a brand called Icon Foods. He also founded the Steviva brands in 1999. His passion for food and his concern about the explosion of metabolic diseases united in the mission of providing consumers healthy alternatives to sugar. His work is responsible for food manufacturers creating products that contain 50-90% fewer sugars by replacing sugar and high fructose corn syrup in their products. His passion for food and optimal health have intersected with his embrace of a ketogenic diet. His latest project is lining up ketogenic condiments intended to help people be more successful in adopting a healthier lifestyle. He wrote his first book called, ‘Guy Gone Keto’. He has an amazing transformation. I think he could be a game changer in the industry wide because he is bringing all these foods that are normally full of sugar and unhealthy additives and finding healthier alternatives. It is a great way to help this country specifically transition from all these foods we grew up loving to creating healthier alternatives that taste just as good or better that are the same price as well. Can we make it as cheap as these other things? That’s kind of his mission. That is why I brought him on to talk about things from an FDA perspective and food labeling and nutrition facts. What kind of sweeteners are good on the ketogenic diet? Which ones do we need to watch out for and the science behind how they work. He is definitely a wealth of knowledge. This episode goes deep into that.


Drew: Thom King, welcome to the show. How are you doing today?

Thom: I am doing well, Drew. It is a privilege and an honor to be on your Podcast. I’m super excited to jump right in on this.

Drew: Yeah. I am excited to have you on as well. I would appreciate it if you wouldn’t mind kind of introducing yourself to my audience. I know you are a serial entrepreneur and you’re big on keto. But let’s talk a little bit about what led you to this path that you are currently on? If you could kind of connect the dots for us?

Thom: Yeah, definitely. I have always sort of dabbled in keto. Before I dabbled in keto, I actually did Atkins quite a bit, which I think is sort of a modified keto. It tends to have a little bit too much protein. What happened is I used keto as a diet. When I was using the keto diet, I would lose weight. Then I would go off keto, and I’d gain that weight right back. So I had a lot of ‘yo-yo’ weight, like up and down. Eventually you just keep going up higher and higher, so the extremes get to be more extreme. I was about 35 pounds overweight. I was in Las Vegas and had just gone out to dinner with a vendor and had a big steak and dessert and wine and everything else. I got back to my room and looked in the mirror and it was just like, ‘Wow.’ I really felt like I was a pretty big fraud because I own an ingredient company. We supply sweeteners to companies in the health and nutrition industry, as well as companies that manufacture ketogenic friendly products. At that point, I really made a deep commitment to adopt a ketogenic lifestyle. I journaled everything that I did and that is what led to the book I wrote.

Drew: Wow. I think it’s interesting that when you say you looked in the mirror, I think almost every single person I have met has had a situation where they either look at themselves in a picture or in a mirror or something catches their eye. And they are like, ‘Wow. I didn’t think I looked like that.’ It really is an eye opening experience for a lot of people because they think, ‘Ok, it’s time to take control. It’s time to do this. Time to really make this a lifestyle change.’ But sometimes, it doesn’t happen until people are 30, 40, 50 years old. Then it’s so much harder because they have gotten out of those habits of making it a lifestyle change. I think what you said, you gain the weight, you lose the weight. So many people can relate to that because that is what most of us tend to do. They push themselves really hard. Maybe they will go really extreme for a period of time and then they are like, ‘Oh you know what, life is too short. Eat, drink and be merry a little bit.’ Which is fine, but then people go down and they just get out of those habits completely, then they try and jump back on. I like that your story is very, very relatable. Talk a little bit about what you were doing at this time business wise. You said you were supplying ingredients to companies that make ketogenic foods. How did that come about? How did that start?

Thom: Well, my sweetener company started in the mid-90’s. I was living in Arizona at the time. I ran into a gentleman who had come back from Paraguay and actually had some crushed up stevia leaves. He was like, ‘Yeah. This is stevia.’ I tasted them. They were sweet. They were like 25 times sweeter than sugar in their natural state. That’s when this lightbulb went off in my head. I was like, ‘Wow. If I can come up with a way to naturally extract the constituents from that leaf, this could be the natural version of aspartame.’

Drew: Yeah.

Thom: I spent a lot of money and a lot of time trying to find a manufacturer who could manufacture just using a water extraction process. I finally did. Then almost immediately upon me bringing it into the United States, the FDA started seizing stuff I was bringing in, because it wasn’t approved as a sweetener. It was only approved as a dietary supplement. One of my competitors was able to lobby the FDA and convince them to allow stevia as a food ingredient and not a dietary supplement. Then that’s when my business started to take off. But it was a lot of hard work. Yeah, then we really started supplying a lot of companies that are making bars and protein drinks that are trying to employ some kind of clean label sugar reduction.

Drew: What year was this?

Thom: 2008. So, in 2008 Cargill lobbied the FDA to allow stevia as what’s called in my industry ‘gras’ generally regarded as safe. They lobbied the FDA to allow stevia to have a ‘gras’ status, which paved the way to allow it to be used as an ingredient in soft drinks and bars and stuff. That was 2008. It was a struggle up until that point.

Drew: *laughing* So, you were on the front lines getting stevia approved as a sweetener. Which is crazy because no one really knows about this kind of stuff that happens. It’s not like this kind of stuff is on the news or you’re tweeting about it on Social Media. It’s not that popular, but it’s important because look how popular stevia is now. Everyone knows what stevia is, for the most part, right? It’s generally a very common sugar alternative that is used in a lot of ingredients. Did you know at this time scientifically what it did? Or did you just know that this was a sugar alternative? Did you know about glycemic response or did you know about that at the time?

Thom: Yeah I did. I would consider myself a pretty big geek. I actually will read medical journals for entertainment over T.V. or novels. I am constantly researching, constantly collecting data. Yeah, right from the beginning, I understood the glycemic index and where stevia fell on that. Even like the sweet constituents that are in the leaf, which are referred to as steviol glycosides. Like there are 13 of those particular steviol glycosides and I became acquainted with them intimately. So I knew how best those sweet constituents could be weaved into recipes to deliver the best flavor profiles.

Drew: Gotcha. So once this happened with stevia and you guys got it approved and started using it in products as a sweetener, were you keto at this time or was this before keto?

Thom: I dabbled …. well this would be about the time of Atkins. This is way back in the day. So yeah, I dabbled in Atkins. Then I started to really develop, I guess, sort of a scientific knowledge of how ketosis works and how the body metabolizes particular fats and carbohydrates. So, yeah, I started my journey there, but you know the problem was I wasn’t committed. I really actually lived to eat. I didn’t eat to live. That’s the biggest problem, where you are just looking forward to your next meal and your next meal is becoming more of an addiction than anything else. So breaking that mindset and moving from doing keto once in a while to making it a lifestyle change and committing to it and don’t ever get off keto, I think that was what led me to far greater success.

Drew: Gotcha. Going back to stevia a little bit, this led you down the path of possibly other sweeteners that I am assuming you looked into, that are low on the glycemic index or that don’t cause an insulin response that would be considered keto friendly. Maybe we could talk about what some of those sweeteners are? The health benefits, the good, the bad, the ugly, like which ones are approved for the ketogenic diet? People ask all the time, which sweetener should I use? Which sweetener should I avoid? Maybe let’s just go down the most common ones and you tell us your opinion on them.

Thom: Well the most common one is …. the most high intensity sweetener is going to be stevia. Stevia is about 250 times sweeter than sugar. I would say that it’s distant cousin would be monk fruit. Monk fruit is in the 200-250 times sweeter than sugar range. Those are the high intensity sweeteners. Those are going to be a little more challenging to use if you are attempting to replace sugar. We’ve been using what I refer to as bulking sweeteners like erythritol. Sometimes we use xylitol and then I would say probably the latest and greatest for us has been allulose. I have experimented on myself with every single one of these sweeteners and the combination of them, because basically I won’t release anything to the public or to manufacturers that I don’t know 100% if it affects blood sugar levels or not. I will pull blood and ketones before and then dose myself with the sweetener. Then I will wait for an hour or so and then see what my glucose levels are and my ketones. I’m pretty well versed in the functionality and sort of the keto friendliness of each one of these sweetening compounds.

Drew: Gotcha. Let’s talk about erythritol and xylitol, because those are technically considered sugar alcohols. In your opinion, what have you found to be good or bad about those? Usually from what I have seen and kind of experienced myself, xylitol, if I have too much of it, that causes gastrointestinal issues. Erythritol, not as much. Erythritol doesn’t cause that for me, but as far as sugar alcohols go, what’s your stance on those two specifically?

Thom: Well I would say that xylitol is …. most of it is created through a hydrogenation process using corn. That’s going to lead to more GI impact. If you can get xylitol that is actually sourced from birch, which is super hard to find and super expensive, I would say you would probably have a little less discomfort. The polyols by and large will increase water activity in your lower intestines. It’s not too difficult to visualize what could potentially happen when you have a lot of water going to your lower intestine. But erythritol is actually created through an enzymatic process, so it’s basically a fermented corn glucose substrate, like a corn glucose liquid. Then that’s fermented similar to how you would make yogurt or cheese. Then the by product of that is erythritol, which is about 70% as sweet as sugar. So a lot of times it helps to augment erythritol with either stevia or monk fruit. I would say with xylitol, probably the dosage level, the tolerance dosage level, you want to stay under 10 grams. I would say with erythritol, you are probably safe in that 15 gram area, but what’s interesting about erythritol is that your body will actually become adapted to it and you will be able to tolerate more of it.

Drew: Yeah, erythritol I see is becoming more and more common from what I have seen in certain bars and cookies and desserts that are keto friendly or people that are looking to control their diabetes. It is definitely better than what they used to use, what was it, maltitol?

Thom: Or sorbitol. Those are nightmares. I was in Vegas for a trade show and walked in and they had a candy store that had gummies. It said sugar free gummies, I mean that’s my kryptonite. I was like, ‘I’ve got to have this!’ So I got a pound of them and went back to the room. I’m like, ‘Oh man, this is a free cheat. It’s like high protein, no sugar.’ I think I blasted through about half of those and then the rest of the night, I don’t even know how to describe it. It was the worst gas I think I have ever had in my entire life.

Drew: *laughing* Oh my gosh.

Thom: Stomach cramps. Yeah, it cured me of my sugar free gummy habit. *laughing* I have no interest in those.

Drew: Hilarious! *laughing* Let’s talk a little bit about allulose. You said this is kind of the one that seems promising. Tell us where allulose comes from and what you have seen in using it?

Thom: I would say the biggest part of my job right now, I am the CEO of the company, but I also am the director of R&D. My day almost entirely is eaten up by doing reformulations for brands that want to have less sugar. Over the past year, the largest amount of reformulations that I have been doing have included allulose. Allulose, I’ve been working with it for about 5 years. We won’t really introduce a new product unless we feel like the supply chain is super stable, meaning that it’s reliable, that we will always get product in. Because we deal with some bigger accounts and the worst thing you can do is to start selling them a sweetening system and then tell them that you are out of stock. We make sure that the supply chain is solid. It’s just gotten to that point now where we are super secure with our supply chain. Allulose is very similar to erythritol in the sense that you take a fructose substrate or a liquid fructose and you ferment it with this particular enzyme. The result of that is what is referred to as a rare sugar. Allulose is considered a rare sugar. It’s in small quantities, so it does take a lot of this fructose to make it, which makes it a little more expensive than sugar. But your body actually, even though it’s considered a saccharide, which still technically functions as a sugar, your body, because it has been modified is unable to metabolize it. So it just passes through the urine and feces. But it’s normally, just like any other food. Here is the interesting thing. I’ve been working with it for these 4 or 5 years and what I’ve found is that if you consume 25 grams of allulose, which is quite a bit, you will notice that your blood sugar levels drop slightly and that your ketones actually go up slightly.

Drew: Wow.

Thom: Which is super interesting. For me, it’s super interesting, for other people it’s like, ‘Wow, you really are a geek.’

Drew: *laughing* Is this 25 grams in one dose, like a bolus of this? Like boom!

Thom: You could put it that way, but I would dissolve it in a liquid. And I just did it to see how much I could tolerate before I started getting stomach cramps or any kind of weird side effects. But consuming allulose will drop your blood sugar level slightly and it will raise your ketones. That really raised some big questions like, why is this happening? I’ve been in touch with a couple of different PhDs about this. What happens is it appears to be that the bacteria or the enzyme that is used to create allulose is still present in small amounts. So when you do consume it, it actually blocks your body from metabolizing carbohydrates and sugars.

Drew: Wow.

Thom: It’s super interesting in that respect because it will definitely keep you in keto. There are some people that are super courageous that were leaders in the market, like Quest. Quest nutrition with their hero bar. They jumped right into the allulose market. It’s still considered an added sugar. You have to report it on your nutritional facts panel as an added sugar, but the two large manufacturers that I am dealing with are lobbying the FDA. They have told me that before the end of the year, that the FDA should render a decision that gives its own line item on the nutritional facts panel similar to a polyol. So it will show up as just allulose and not an added sugar.

Drew: Wow.

Thom: Which is going to be a massive game changer, because it is a saccharide, it’s still considered a functional sugar. It does brown. It caramelizes. It functions very similar to sugar, where a sugar alcohol like erythritol doesn’t. So you get a cookie that is really kind of like a brick, it’s a little more dense. You can’t get it to activate any of the leavening to get it to rise. The really cool thing about allulose is the fact that it activates the yeast. It participates in the maillard reaction, which is the reaction between proteins and sugar that causes caramelization and things to be crispy on the outside and moist on the inside. I’m super psyched about it. Every project that I have used it on has been a home run. It’s like this stuff is magical.

Drew: Yeah. To me it tastes the most exactly like sugar. We use it in our probiotics, which are in a form of a pixie stick. So it’s a probiotic which you just take like a powder, like you would a pixie stick. You just put it in your mouth. My kids love it. I love it. Everyone who touches it loves it. It’s got 2 grams of allulose, but still for me it’s the closest taste to sugar. But like you said, for right now, it is still more expensive. It’s a more expensive sweetener. Do you foresee this changing possibly making it more common? Companies are going to start paying more attention to it because of that? Do you see it, the prices dropping at some point?

Thom: Yeah. I think you are going to see the prices drop definitely. When we first started getting into and exploring allulose, there was one company that held the intellectual property for that enzyme and now there are five. So, there are more competitors and it has cut the price about in half. It’s roughly the same price as erythritol, but I think that’s going to change, because probably 75-80% of the total erythritol manufacturing is coming out of China. We’ve had two tariffs, we had a 5% tariff and then 3 weeks ago we had that increased to 10% and now it’s actually 25% after the first of the year. It really targets alcohol sugars. So, 2019 is going to be an interesting year. I project that erythritol prices are going to go up and demand is going to drop. Allulose prices are probably going to stay about the same, because there is a lot of scalability. I think you might even see them drop somewhat. As people adopt it as their sort of go to non-nutritive sweetener, I think you will see it drop in prices.

Drew: Yeah. That’s awesome. Going back to the label thing, I know there are a lot of companies starting to use it now in keto products. When people first go keto, they are taught to look at the total amount of carbohydrates. So some of these will have 20-30 grams of allulose in it and their carbohydrates are 40 and people are like, ‘How is this keto?! How am I supposed to eat this?’ A lot of people don’t understand yet what allulose is and how it works in the body and things like that. It’s confusing because it is labeled as a sugar. *laughing* Which is super confusing, right?

Thom: It is confusing and that will change in the months ahead. Then people will be able to identify it a little bit better. As with any novel sweetener, like when I first started working with stevia, it’s an educational process. You have to educate the consumer, like this is stevia. This is where it comes from and this is how it affects your body. I think that with companies like Quest and companies like Know Foods that really jumped into the allulose arena quickly, they are brilliant in the way they explain it off, like you subtract the amount of allulose and that will give you your net carb.

Drew: Exactly. Because right now, some people know that about sugar alcohol, you subtract the total carbs, minus fiber, minus sugar alcohols, that should give you your net carbs. But I think that’s super exciting that allulose will have its own section on nutritional labels. Really quick, let’s talk a little bit about what else is on nutritional labels. Since we are on this topic that can be confusing to people, what have you seen over the years? You have been involved with this and the FDA. Why is it so confusing? *laughing*

Thom: *laughing* Well because it’s constantly changing.

Drew: Yeah.

Thom: But one thing that we sell inulin, which is a prebiotic powder that’s derived from chicory root. This was a big mainstay for us because you could use it as a fat emulator. You could use it as a prebiotic to feed your microbiome. It had a lot of purposes and you could make a fiber claim. If you are trying to drive down net carbs, you could add inulin and it would add fiber and it would drop your net carb impact. But two years ago the FDA said, nope. Inulin is not a fiber. It is actually considered a fructan, which means it has a certain amount of fructose in it, because it is derived from a root. So we are not going to consider it a fiber anymore. *chuckles*

Drew: Oh man. *chuckles*

Thom: It completely wiped out that market for us. Then about a month ago the FDA said, ‘Ok, so we are going to go ahead and allow inulin to be considered a fiber again.’ The rules are constantly changing and constantly adapting. There is also, when you start reading labels, there is a lot of stuff that you may not understand, because it is not in the language that consumers readily can comprehend and those are hidden sugars. Anytime you see lactose, lactose is a hidden sugar. Fructose obviously is a hidden sugar and fructose will knock your butt out of keto pretty quickly because it is metabolized in the liver. When you are reading labels, if you see anything that ends in ‘ose’ the chances are it’s some sort of sugar. You should just be aware of what that sugar is and how it may impact you.

Drew: Yeah. That’s great information for people listening. Like you said, it’s constantly changing. *laughing* That can be confusing to people. People want simple.

Thom: Yes.

Drew: Unfortunately this isn’t always simple. But what I tell people is the more educated you become, the more knowledge you have then you can kind of act on that and know, for example, what net carbs are good for you and which ones are affecting your ketone levels versus other ones. It’s just good to be educated. That’s why I am grateful you came on to talk about these specific things and allulose and sugar alcohols and stevia. So, I appreciate that.

Thom: Oh. Thank you. I appreciate that compliment. I mean I don’t really consider myself the biggest expert on keto. I mean you and I both know that there are folks out there that know, the PhD’s of the world, that really know a lot about it. I mean I know what works for me and a lot of it is trial and error. I prefer a ketogenic lifestyle, but it doesn’t necessarily mean a ketogenic lifestyle is right for every single person. I support it mostly because I lost a lot of weight. I dropped my blood pressure down 30 points. But I would say the best thing was my cognitive abilities, like my brain function took a complete shift. For me, it’s like, yeah it works. I love it.

Drew: Yeah. That’s why I love it too, is the improvement in mental clarity and cognitive function and focus and energy throughout the day. It’s like night and day compared to before, so I see it as nutrition for my brain. Yeah, you can lose weight and lose fat. I think that’s what attracts most people to it, but there is so much more to it and all the therapeutic applications to it too. All the scientific research that is being done on it for things like Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s and some forms of cancer and traumatic brain injury and PTSD and disease of the brain pretty much, you see these improvements with these scientific studies that are being done.

Thom: Yeah.

Drew: Let’s talk about ‘Guy Gone Keto’ and your condiments, Ketosesweet+ for example, hopefully I pronounced that right! Tell us about the products you have and what they are all about.

Thom: Well, I had my moment of shame in Vegas, where I was just like, ‘Look, this has got to come to an end. I can’t just keep going up and down with my weight. I can’t be living an unhealthy lifestyle and yet provide companies with sweeteners that promote a healthy lifestyle.’ Really it was in that room in Vegas that I really drilled down into just how much pain I was experiencing. I was having a few minutes of pleasure, but then the pain of the food shame and just being fat, it outweighed any of the pleasure I was deriving from food. I just started writing about it. I just started writing and the next thing I knew, a book happened. Then while writing the book, I was coming up with recipes and ideas about what am I really missing? What are the things I wished I could have, like pizza or I would love to have a hamburger with ketchup or how about steak sauce? I started coming up with these ideas and I was like, I can make this stuff! I have a 3000 square foot lab at this facility and I can just start making this stuff for myself. I knocked out 5 different formulas, like a teriyaki sauce which I like to have on cauliflower rice. I just started making them and then a friend of mine said, ‘Hey you should just bottle these up and sell them!’ So we did! What’s really peculiar is how organic this whole concept and this whole business was for me. I just wrote about something that I was passionate about and then created condiments that I liked and gave them to some people. They were like, ‘These are great! Give me some more!’ Then the next thing I knew, we had a consumer brand on our hands.

Drew: Wow! *laughing*

Thom: *laughing*

Drew: Maybe take us through the exact products you guys have currently and which ones you are coming up with, if you don’t mind?

Thom: Yeah. I don’t mind at all. Like I said, R&D is something I am engaged in every single day. I am always trying to come up with something. The thing I am working on now, which is most exciting for me, is a cereal. I would really like to have a cereal that was like nut based and ketogenic friendly that you could just have. I mean, if you compare to cheerios or corn flakes, that is probably the worst thing you could put into your system first thing in the morning. I miss cereal so that is a project I am working on now. Over the summer, I saw an otter pop and I was like, ‘You know what? I can make that!’ We made otter pops, so I think in Q1 or Q2 we are going to have keto pops come out and you just put them in the freezer. It has MCT oil and all the right macros to keep you solid. The condiments are probably for me the best, the thing that I use most often. We have ketchup, BBQ sauce, steak sauce, teriyaki sauce and Thai sweet chili sauce. I like them and we’ve been getting pretty good feedback on them. Those are condiments that I couldn’t have and now I can. Maybe I just did it for myself! *laughing*

Drew: *laughing* Which is awesome! I love that you are creating these products because people think, ‘Oh you shouldn’t create these products because of the behavior behind them.’ I get it. But the majority of people, if we would have started out with keto products before all these other cheap, easy, convenient, highly processed products that are out there that are full of hidden sugars, if that was the norm, then we wouldn’t have to recreate all these things again. And say, ‘Hey this is sugar free. This one is keto. This one is this or that.’ It’s so interesting that our society adopted this one method of making things cheap, easy, convenient with corn and soy products and tons of sugars and high fructose corn syrup. That has become the norm now and now we have to totally try to backtrack and say, ‘Hey, now we know these things are bad. There is so much added sugar. Look at what it is doing to the nation.’ Now we are kind of stuck to where people are like, ‘Oh, that doesn’t have sugar in it. I can’t eat it.’ We are so accustomed to the taste that it’s going to be really, really hard to get people to adapt and change. If these options are out there, it’s going to make it easier to transition versus saying, ‘Ok, no more processed from the grocery store. Only eat real food.’ Everyone is obviously everyone’s end goal, but in the meantime it’s hard to get people to go from ‘A to Z’ in one day, right?

Thom: Yeah.

Drew: If we can get them to go from ‘A to B, B to C, C to D’ and then slowly start making those changes to the other end where it’s like everyone is eating whole foods and meditating and all that stuff. That would be great! *laughing*

Thom: Yes.

Drew: I really appreciate what you are doing. I would love to make sure people know where they can find you on Social Media and find your book, your products, all those links we want to put in the show notes so people can find more about you.

Thom: They can go to the website GuyGoneKeto.com. If you want to see what I am up to in the lab, you can go to IConFoods.com and you can follow us on any of the socials under IconFoods or Guy Gone Keto. Also, if your audience has adopted a ketogenic lifestyle and there are particular products that they are interested in, I am always open to new ideas. Yeah, I would encourage people to reach out to me and tell me what I can do better and what I can do to make a contribution. Yep, just Guy Gone Keto and Icon Foods.

Drew: Ok. Really quick, just a quick shout out because I know you sent me some of your products, I just want to say your products really are good. I mean they really are good. I have tried them so thank you for sending them to me to test. *chuckles* I am excited for the new stuff coming out, Thom. Keep up the good work, man. You are doing some awesome things in this world.

Thom: Wow. Thanks Drew. Yeah, any comments you give me about our products, I mean the keto sweetener has been really amazing. It’s a blend of allulose, stevia and monk fruit. You know the thing that is interesting, since I started using it, I noticed that my cravings for sweets and sugars have really dropped a lot. I am going to have to dig into that one and find out why that is happening.

Drew: Wow. That’s awesome. That’s so cool. I just saw in your Instagram you guys have these MCT oil gummies. *laughing*

Thom: Yeah and they won’t give you disaster pants! *laughing*

Drew: Yeah, hopefully it’s not a situation like you had! *laughing*

Thom: Hopefully not! *laughing*

Drew: Well Thom, thank you for coming on. We will put all the links in the show notes. I will have to have you on in the future when you launch some of these new products.

Thom: I would love to.

Drew: Ok, we will talk to you soon, Thom.

Thom: Ok, have a great day.


OUTRO:

Hey everyone, thank you so much for listening to this episode on the Fit2Fat2Fit Experience Podcast. I really, really appreciate all the support you have shown me throughout all the years. If you love the Podcast, then please go subscribe to the Podcast on ITunes and also if you love the Podcast, please leave us a review. It definitely helps out with rankings, which means more people listening to this Podcast when they see it. Feel free to reach out to me on social media @Fit2Fat2Fit or at Fit2Fat2Fit.com, with suggestions or comments or concerns. Anything that you guys think that I could do to make this Podcast better for you, I definitely want to bring the highest quality content to you, the most value because I know you are investing 30-50 minutes per day when you listen to the Podcast. I really appreciate all the support and like I said, go follow me @Fit2Fat2Fit on social media, if you want to reach out to me with comments, questions or concerns. Thank you guys so much and we will see you back here next week on the Fit2Fat2Fit Experience Podcast.