Episode 142 – Dr. Harry Adelson
Hey everyone, what’s up, it’s me, Drew Manning. So today’s episode is a very special, very unique and very different from what I’ve normally done. I’m with a doctor called Dr. Harry Adelson in his office in Park City. I just got done doing a procedure I’ve never done before, it’s called stem cell therapy. Basically what we did, in a nutshell is before the podcast interview, he did this procedure on me where he extracted bone marrow from my hip. We will talk about this on the podcast. But, he extracted bone marrow from my hip, took out the stem cells and added in these things called exosomes, he will explain what that is later. Then he injected it into my kneecap, where I have an old injury from back in my football days. Yeah, it was very interesting. So you’re going to want to stay tuned for this episode with Dr. Harry Adelson, here in Park City Utah. He is one of the nation’s leading stem cell therapy doctors. Let’s see, he began his training in regenerative injection therapy in 1998. And spent his final year at the National College of Naturalopathic Medicine in Portland Oregon. During his residency program in Integrative Medicine at the Yale-Griffin Hospital in Derby Connecticut, he volunteered after hours in a large homeless shelter in Bridgeport Connecticut, providing regenerative injection therapy to the medically and underserved, while gaining valuable experience. He opened Docere Clinics in Salt Lake City in 2002. From day one, his practice has been 100% regenerative injection therapies for the treatment for musculoskeletal pain conditions. In 2006, he incorporated platelet rich plasma, PRPU. You might have heard me talk about that before, and ultrasound guided injection into his armamentarium. In 2010, bone marrow aspirate concentrate and adipose derived stem cells. In 2013, fluoroscopic guided injection and so basically, that is what he did for me. In a nutshell, this guy, he was the keynote speaker at Bulletproof Conference, for Dave Asprey, so he knows what he is talking about. So, today’s episode is very unique because we are actually in his office post procedure, talking about stem cells. You are going to want to stick around for this one to see how it might apply to you and how it might help you in the future. So, I had a great time with Dr. Harry Adelson, I think you guys will like this as well.
Drew: Alright, what’s up everyone. It’s me, Drew Manning, from Fit2Fat2Fit and I am here with Dr. Adelson of Park City Utah, where we literally just got done with a little stem cell therapy on my right knee. That was very interesting, Dr. Adelson. First of all, I just want to thank you for coming on the show. I’m super excited to talk about stem cells, all things stem cells and thank you for coming on.
Dr. Adelson: Thank you so much, Drew. It’s a pleasure.
Drew: So, how did the procedure go? *laughing*
Dr. Adelson: It went stellar. We did a bone marrow aspiration. We suspended some exosomes in your bone marrow aspirate concentrate. Injected it into your knee joint itself, using x-ray guidance. Your knee looked fine. You don’t appear to have any arthritis, from looking at the x-ray. When we injected into your infrapatellar tendon, using ultrasound, we were able to see a pretty significant tear in your infrapatellar tendon, which I am certain has been causing your problem.
Drew: Interesting. Yeah, and we will get into all that and explain what all this means, because some people are like, ‘Wait, what does that mean?’ We will dive into all that for you guys. So, let’s kind of start from the beginning, Dr. Adelson. Where did you grow up? What were your passions as a kid, that led you down this path you are on today?
Dr. Adelson: I grew up in New York City. My father is an art dealer. My brothers and my sister all went into the art business, but I discovered very quickly that I actually do not have the skill set for it. I am terrible with numbers. I misquote numbers all the time. I hate schmoozing, I am actually socially awkward. I just really wasn’t cut out for the art business. I did an outward bound course when I was 16 years old and got very interested in wilderness medicine and that is what sort of started me down the path of medicine. When I was early in my first year of naturopath school, I was a high level rock climber and I tore the labrum in my shoulder while training in rock climbing. I saw a surgeon and he said, ‘Well, we can put a scope in there. We can cut away the torn piece of cartilage, but it’s going to cause you problems later in life.’ I said, ‘You know, there’s got to be a way that I can trigger my own healing, that I can accelerate my own body’s ability to heal itself.’ At the time I was 23 years old and I was in great physical condition. I just thought, there’s got to be a way to be able to boost healing. That’s when I discovered Prolotherapy, which is the predecessor to stem cell therapy. Prolotherapy is the injection of natural substances to trick your body into thinking you have had an new injury, thereby launching your body’s natural healing cascade. Then platelet rich plasma came on the scene in 2006 and then in 2010, I had a patient who came to me and handed me a stack of papers on the use of bone marrow stem cells. She said, ‘I want you to inject my bone marrow stem cells into my knee.’
Drew: Really? Wow.
Dr. Adelson: I couldn’t say no to her so I learned how to do it. That was 8 years ago and that’s all I’ve done for 8 years.
Drew: The demand came first before you even knew there would be a demand. Let’s kind of back up a little bit to Outward Bound. I have no idea what that is. When you say natural medicine or medicine of nature, what is that?
Dr. Adelson: Well, Outward Bound is an outdoor orienteering program.
Drew: Ok. Was that for high school or ….
Dr. Adelson: No. It’s a national program. They do sort of wilderness …. it’s not really survival.
Drew: It’s not like scouts or anything like that, right?
Dr. Adelson: No, but it’s wilderness travel. I went to naturopathic medical school, which is a four year degree in naturopathic medicine. The first two years are in the classroom. A lot of it mirrors conventional medical school in the first two years with all the basic sciences. But in the third and fourth year when traditional medical students and MD students are in the hospital full time, we stay in the classroom and we learn the national modalities. We learn acupuncture and botanical medicine, nutrition and spinal manipulation and really the full gamut of natural therapies. Then we initially do patient care at that point.
Drew: Ok. What made you choose naturopathic medicine versus traditional?
Dr. Adelson: I fell in love with the philosophy. The naturopathic medicine is based on six philosophical tenets. Number one being “the healing power of nature” So, essentially in our bodies we have this innate wisdom. Our bodies are designed to heal themselves after injury. The goal of the naturopathic doctor is to remove the obstacles to cure and support the bodies ability to heal itself. Which is why regenerative medicine, and ultimately stem cell medicine, appeals to me so much. Because it is truly drugless medicine. With the treatment we just did with you, there were no drugs used. It was all your own stuff.
Drew: Yeah, that’s interesting. So, how did your shoulder heal up? *chuckles*
Dr. Adelson: It was brilliant. I had at that time Prolotherapy done and I had a complete heal.
Drew: Wow, that is really interesting.
Dr. Adelson: I went on to France and pulled down hard. It was great.
Drew: Ok, so start from the beginning of stem cells, where did that originate and how did it become almost mainstream, where it is today?
Dr. Adelson: Well, bone marrow stem cells have been used for a long time in cancer treatments. So, that’s when you hear about people talking about bone marrow transplants. So, a typical treatment is you take a persons stem cells out, then you bombard the person with radiation to kill all the cancer cells, then you put stem cells back in.
Drew: Ok. What year was that around?
Dr. Adelson: That’s been in existence, I believe since the 70’s. So, there’s been a tradition of using bone marrow stem cells in cancer treatment. Really it was around 2008 when people started saying instead of using embryonic stem cells, which there is a great deal of controversy around, we have stem cells in bone marrow, let’s just use that. This was mostly people like myself who had already been doing Prolotherapy, already had been using platelet rich plasma. We had already had been using these natural substances in the platelet rich plasma, biological substances to trigger the bodies natural healing response.
Drew: Yeah, so I remember there being controversy about stem cells. Where did that come from?
Dr. Adelson: That was primarily with embryonic ….
Drew: So, what would they do in those situations?
Dr. Adelson: So, when we talk about embryonic stem cells, first of all let’s just get it straight where they come from. They don’t come from aborted babies. They come from a woman who has difficulty conceiving will go to an in vitro fertilization laboratory. The surgeon gives her medication to produce a bunch of eggs. They harvest those eggs and then they take male sperm and in a Petrie dish combine them. They essentially fertilize in vitro, in glass, fertilization. They fertilize the egg and the sperm and they grow into an embryo. An embryo is a ball of eight cells. It’s not a fetus. It’s not something that looks like a baby. It’s a ball of eight cells. The surgeon them looks for the best looking, healthiest embryos and re-implants them into the woman. The remaining embryos now go into the freezer for time and eternity.
Drew: Ok. Oh, wow.
Dr. Adelson: They are never used again, ever, for any reason. Those are the ones that could be used medicinally. But it can be argued that those are human life.
Drew: Oh, ok.
Dr. Adelson: So, when you are talking about using an embryo for medical research, it’s not an aborted baby. It’s these embryos that are sitting in a freezer doing absolutely nothing at all.
Drew: Yeah, ok, that makes sense to me. I think there is some misguided education, or lack of knowledge when it comes to that controversy. But it isn’t …. but they are just sitting there for time and all eternity. There are no plans to use them.
Dr. Adelson: They will never be used for any reason.
Drew: Gotcha. Then when did they find that instead of using that, they could get the same benefits from ….
Dr. Adelson: Well, embryos are really the best choice for certain types of tissue engineering. So, like if you are going to grow a liver in a laboratory, well then embryos are a good choice for something like that. What we are doing is not tissue engineering. What we are doing is regenerative medicine. We are putting stem cells into an area that has been damaged and then through intracellular communication, those stem cells are able to identify that they are in the presence of damaged tissue. They are then able to facilitate the healing of that tissue. In that case, it’s actually better to have stem cells that are further down the family tree.
Dr. Adelson: Because the embryonic stem cells are way up here, these are more primitive stem cells. But then you have these layers of the family tree as you come down that are slightly more differentiated and you’re talking about what we used for you. The bone marrow stem cells and we are treating something like a musculoskeletal injury. You are actually better off using something that’s a little further down the scale.
Drew: Ok, that makes sense. I kind of want to talk a little bit about the procedure for me and how it was, so everyone listening can kind of understand what this entailed. I remember you laid me down on my stomach and I wasn’t under. You just gave me a little bit of laughing gas and then there were some incisions on my back side. Where did we get the bone marrow stem cell from exactly?
Dr. Adelson: Right. So what we did with you, Drew. I did a very simple treatment. We were just treating one knee. Here at the Docere Clinics, we frequently do very complex procedures. Most of our procedures are done with an anesthesiologist, a board certified anesthesiologist administering sedation. It’s not general anesthesia, but you are affectively asleep and you wake up two hours later. Because what we were doing with you was so simple, we gave you some laughing gas. We had you face down. The first step was aspirating the bone marrow. This is, I don’t know if you have cameras or if you can see this, but this is a skeleton. This big flat bone in the pelvis here is the ileum and this ridge here is called the iliac crest. The ileum is the largest flat bone in the body. The flat bones contain the finest number of stem cells. So, the ileum is the best place to harvest for stem cells, because it is the largest flat bone. We took a needle and we used the x-ray camera to determine the exact angle of your Frisbee shaped flat bone. Then we put the needle along parallel to that flat bone, right on the edge, and then we started aspirating. Then as I was aspirating, because the needle was placed perfectly parallel, we were able to advance the needle as we were aspirating to retrieve the maximum number of stem cells.
Drew: Yeah. That was a really weird sensation. It didn’t hurt, it just felt like a weird pressure. The pounding on it, it was fine. I wasn’t in pain or anything like that. But it was really an interesting pressure and sensation.
Dr. Adelson: It’s a negative pressure in the deepest part of your body, so your brain is going to categorize the experience. The only thing that comes close to it would be like getting sucked out of a spaceship. *laughing*
Drew: *laughing* That’s not happened yet to me. But it was a really interesting foreign sensation. It wasn’t that bad and it just took a few minutes and then you spin it, right?
Dr. Adelson: Yes, put it in a centrifuge. The red blood cells are the heaviest, so they go to the bottom. They contain iron, so they are the heaviest. The serum goes to the top and then in the middle is what is called the buffy layer. That contains the white blood cells, the platelets and the stem cells. We draw off that layer and now we have a concentration of the good stuff. So it’s BMAC, bone marrow aspirate concentrate.
Drew: Ok, gotcha. Then from there, I didn’t really see it, at what point did you add in exosomes? And also explain what those are, if you can?
Dr. Adelson: Ok, sure. So, then we took …. we drew up the BMAC, then we suspended it in your BMAC, a vial of exosomes, which we talked about before. It’s from a laboratory in New Jersey that takes culture expanded placenta stem cells. They put the placental stem cells in a culture media that is stressful to the stem cells. So the stem cell now thinks that it’s host is under duress, so it starts sprouting these vesicles filled with growth factors, in order to help the host. They then destroy the stem cells and just harvest the exosomes, which are in fact the active ingredient. That is the most important part. That’s where you get the benefit from the stem cells, but you are now separating it from the nucleus, from other parts of the stem cell, such as the nucleus. So, you are not then taking the other person’s DNA into your system.
Drew: Wow, interesting. I think that’s really important for people listening to this to understand that. How is the stress created? Is it heat or cold? What is the stress exactly?
Dr. Adelson: They usually, they put it in …. they fast the stem cells.
Drew: They fast it? Ok.
Dr. Adelson: They don’t give them enough nutrition.
Drew: I understand. That just happened to me. I just got off a four day fast recently. *laughing*
Dr. Adelson: Yeah, this is how intermittent fasting works. You make your stem cells think they are approaching lean times, so they prepare to help the host. But then you go ahead and eat and break the fast, but you’ve given yourself this boost.
Drew: Yeah. That’s really interesting. From there, you flipped me over, right? And then from there, we did an x-ray to kind of see and make sure there was no arthritis, which luckily, there wasn’t. Then you did an ultrasound, right? That was really fascinating too.
Dr. Adelson: We injected into the knee joint using x-ray, because that is really the best way to be absolutely certain that whatever you are injecting is evenly flowing throughout the entire joint. So that was the first injection. Then the second injection was the ultrasound guided injection, which was simultaneously diagnostic, because we were able to see the tear in your patella tendon. Then we were able to put the needle exactly in that tear and deliver the stem cells precisely into the tear.
Drew: That is so cool. Now I will say the knee part, that was probably the most painful part of this whole thing. It’s another weird foreign sensation, where you don’t really feel anything going underneath your kneecap. It wasn’t too bad, it was just like a weird pressure and it lasted for a few seconds. It wasn’t that bad. Then you injected the stem cells and exosomes into it, right? And then pretty much, that was it. It didn’t take too long. I will say right now, I am a little bit sore. It definitely had trauma, or whatever you want to call it. So, it’s definitely tight. I don’t plan on running or like squatting anytime soon.
Dr. Adelson: Right. And it’s important to take it easy, for especially the first couple of weeks, but really for the first couple of months. Because the way this works is we are tricking your body into thinking you had this severe new injury. But we haven’t really caused any true tissue damage. But you want to think of it as growing fresh grass. You don’t want to tread on the grass. You want to let that tissue heal and let the body go through that healing process. Like, if you have a road rash, you have got to let it heal. You don’t want to pick at it.
Drew: Yeah, interesting. So, I want to kind of back up to 2006 to when that lady approached you. Where did you go about learning about stem cell therapy? Is there a place to get certified? Where did you go to learn about it to be able to do what you do now?
Dr. Adelson: Right. There is now and then there is back then. So, back then when I learned, it was actually 2010.
Drew: Oh, ok.
Dr. Adelson: Back then, there were approximately ten people in the country doing it and there were no courses being taught. There was really nothing written on it.
Drew: Oh, wow.
Dr. Adelson: I went through the list. The first nine people hung up on me. The tenth person was a guy named Joe Purita, who very graciously invited me to his clinic in Boca Raton. I got to watch one procedure and that was pretty much it. I decided if I was going to learn, I was going to have to travel. So, the year of 2011, I spent most of that flying around. I traveled all through Central America and South America, learning from the experts, from the people who had some experience doing it and had been doing it for some period of time. I visited various clinics, like Carlos Sicilia, where he would do these very simple procedures, where he would just aspirate bone marrow from the sternum, put it through an ozone machine and give it intravenously. He treated everything imaginable. It was a very inexpensive and very simple way to treat really broad spectrum conditions. I went directly from there to the Stem Cell Institute in Panama City, which is in the western hemisphere, one of the premier stem cell institutes. It’s extremely high tech and they have a state of the art laboratory. They culture expand peoples own stem cells and they culture expand every other type of stem cell. Then I visited a number of other clinics of everything in between, those were the two extremes. I saw people that were doing all these different fermentations of how they had developed it.
Dr. Adelson: I decided that there was …. what was interesting was seeing this broad spectrum from the simplest to the complex and all of these in between, that there was really a sort of golden ratio of complexity and simplicity. I decided I was going to find my own ratio and that’s sort of what I’ve come up with.
Drew: Yeah. And why do you think the US is behind the times? It seems like everyone goes to Europe or South America for these types of procedures. There were only ten in the US at the time and it seems like the USA is kind of behind the times as far as these foreign countries taking the lead in this. Why?
Dr. Adelson: That was certainly the case back in 2010. I think we are actually leading in some regards.
Dr. Adelson: We are not as behind the times as we were then. More and more people have started doing it. There are more people doing research on it and building really …. amassing more personal experience, like I have done. I mean, we have done well over 4000 cases, at this point.
Dr. Adelson: Approaching 5000 cases. So, in some regards, we are actually ahead of the curve and on others we are behind the curve.
Drew: Yeah. I kind of see it, being in a health and wellness space, it becoming more mainstream, right? When do you think that sort of happened in the United States, where you are speaking at Bulletproof Conference and treating people live Dave Asprey and these other people in the industry? When did it start to become mainstream in the United States?
Dr. Adelson: Well, it just sort of hits a critical mass, where enough people are doing it and enough people are talking about it. It becomes like any other phenomenon.The thing that of course is a major rate limiting factor, is that insurance does not pay for it. I think that’s probably not going to change any time soon, because it does not fit into the medical model.
Dr. Adelson: This is perhaps, you know, appropriate for a different conversation. But, the medical industrial complex is a system and it’s an organism. It’s developed into an organism that is self perpetuating and it really does not fit into that model. It’s threatening, because if you were to actually reduce the number of joint replacements done in this country by 10%, hospitals would go out of business. If hospitals went out of business, insurance companies would go out of business.
Dr. Adelson: Insurance companies and hospitals have this relationship where they depend on each other for their survival. Stem cell medicine has the potential to be a major disruptive force. Back to your original question, which is why has the US been so slow to adopt this, it really is largely that. Because it can be a disruptive force to the system that we have.
Drew: Interesting. Yeah it seems like surgery it such a huge money maker. That makes sense, it’s the trickle effect of how detrimental it could be to the medical system. That’s interesting. There is obviously a lot of applications for stem cells. In your opinion, what are the most common applications that you see people using it for?
Dr. Adelson: Well, here at Docere Clinics, we only treat musculoskeletal pain, that’s all we do. So we treat a lot of low back pain, a lot of neck pain. More and more, we are sort of evolving into a specialty clinic just to treat spine pain. That’s a major part of what we do. We also do treat hips, knees, ankles, feet, shoulders, elbows, wrists and hands. But we really just focus exclusively on the treatment of musculoskeletal pain. I just want to be really good at one thing and that’s why we do that.
Dr. Adelson: There are more and more clinics that are treating the entire spectrum of conditions. From autoimmune conditions to neurologic conditions to cardiovascular. Pretty much you name it, there are people out there treating it. We don’t, but we are aware of people who are having clinical success with it.
Drew: Wow. How does that benefit or differ from what you do? I mean, like an autoimmune issue, give me an example of how it’s beneficial in a specific condition like that?
Dr. Adelson: The autoimmune condition is a systemic condition where your immune system has gone awry. Your immune system is recognizing your own tissues as foreign invaders and then attacks them. One of the things …. and this is one of the areas, autoimmune is specifically one of the areas that has some of the strongest research. Now there’s not a great deal of it and it’s all really new and it’s not definitive yet, but it’s very compelling, some of the studies on lupus and rheumatoid arthritis, on these conditions. Where administering stem cells has the ability to down regulate the immune system and just sort of calm everything down.
Drew: Interesting. Is that through like an IV?
Dr. Adelson: Through an IV, precisely. Yes, through an IV, precisely.
Drew: So, it’s not like an injection or anything like that?
Dr. Adelson: Right, through systemic administration through an IV.
Drew: Yeah. I used to work in the medical field, believe it or not. Before Fit2Fat2Fit happened, I was …. it was called a neuro monitor technician. I used to be in there for back surgery. People would go in there for back surgery or neck surgery, I would monitor the patient’s nervous system during surgery. So, I’ve seen a lot of back surgeries and it’s definitely something I never, never want to go through.
Dr. Adelson: It’s a good one to skip if you can.
Drew: If you can, yeah. Exactly. Before we were talking about who your typical clients are. Who do you mostly see coming in? What type of demographic comes to you for stem cell therapy?
Dr. Adelson: Sure. Well, especially since we treated Dave Asprey, and I spoke at his conference twice, we get people from all over. We get people from Florida to Alaska, all over Canada. More and more we are getting international. We even have people from Dubai flying over. So, we get people from all over. The people who travel the farthest are usually the spine cases, because we are really developing our reputation as specializing in pain of the spine. Things like what we did with you, if you’re living halfway across the world, probably there is someone close to you who can do a pretty good knee injection. There are many fewer places that do epidural injections with stem cells, that do the more higher complexity spine interventions that we are doing here.
Drew: What can people expect when they come here and they get a procedure done? Is this something that have to do for the rest of their life or is it like one and done? What do you typically see?
Dr. Adelson: We do one treatment and then we wait a year.
Dr. Adelson: Most frequently …. we certainly don’t have a 100% success. We help a lot more people than we don’t help. We are very pleased with the success that we do get. We wait a year. Most people that we treat, at the one year mark, are satisfied. And I don’t mean 100% pain relief, but I mean enough pain relief that they are glad they did it and they don’t feel the need to do another one at the one year mark. A smaller percentage of people at the one year mark have had some improvement, but they would like a little more. Then we talk about doing a second treatment at the one year mark, to hopefully get them to where they want to be. Once we get them there, then we just wait. Either they are in the first category, where we have helped them. Or they are in the second category, where a second treatment …. we just wait. Anywhere from 3 – 6 years, we are probably going to do a second treatment. Because what this treatment does is it turns back the hands of time. It doesn’t stop the hands of time, time marches on.
Drew: Yeah, exactly. *laughing*
Dr. Adelson: Wherever you injury was, is going to continue to be your Achilles heel, it’s going to continue to be your weak link. If I give somebody significant pain relief for four years and they come back in four years, well I think we are ahead. Most people agree with me, they are glad they have avoided spinal fusion and major surgery and have had four good years. Then we do it again. About 10% of the people we treat have no benefit at all. We have about a 1 in 10 non-response rate. Sometimes this is people who are not terribly healthy to begin with and their stem cell function is suboptimal out of the gate. But sometimes it’s people who are perfectly healthy, and it just doesn’t help them.
Drew: Gotcha. People like Dave Asprey, a bio hackers perspective, he has been very vocal about having a lofty goal of living to 180 or 200 years old, at some point. I know he uses stem cell therapy …. not to …. like you said, to turn back the hands of time, but not to stop the hands of time. Eventually, you are going to age, right? Some people use this for beauty reasons, right? How is stem cell therapy used on the scalp or hair or face, all kinds of things?
Dr. Adelson: Well, first let me answer about the biohacking and then we will talk about the cosmetic applications. So, because of doing work with people like Dave Asbery and yourself and getting people who are interested, who are really proactively doing everything they can to optimize their health and prolong their longevity. One of the things over the years, because we never bill insurance, frequently we will do big treatments. Where we are treating many areas in a single sitting. A lot of insurance paying models, they are stuck in this mindset of we are going to treat one knee, if you want to treat your shoulder, you’ve got to come back another time. Well, we have never been in that mindset, so frequently we will do these big treatments. Also, we treat so many farmers and oil field workers and ranchers, people who really as I joke, they’ve exceeded the terms of their warranty. They have really busted themselves up. We will treat …. we will do big treatments, their entire spine, both their shoulders, both their hips.
Drew: Ok. Wow.
Dr. Adelson: Then also because we do so many of our procedures under sedation, more and more we started doing what I was affectionately referring to as full body stem cell makeovers. Well now we finally formalized the full body stem cell makeover. We are offering along with, sort of the encouragement of people like Dave Asprey, and other friends, so what we do is we …. people come in. We have them sedated by the anesthesiologist. We take a very large volume of bone marrow. We also have the option of taking a very large volume of fat, isolating the stem cells from the fat. Then we have the option of using exosomes and then we treat every moving part of their body. We treat the spine, from the base of the skull down to the tailbone. Then we turn them over and treat both shoulders, both elbows, both wrists, both knees, both hips, both ankles and both feet. We call this the full body stem cell makeover. The idea with that is for the biohackers, for the people who are proactive, for the people who are interested in prolonging longevity. The stem cell theory of aging states, when we deteriorate, when we age, when we break down, it is in effect a function of our stem cells losing the ability to function properly. It’s you either lose your population of stem cells or your stem cells don’t properly function. So, what we are doing with the full body stem cells makeover, we’re taking the stem cells from areas where you still have robust populations, then we are just fully impregnating all of your major musculoskeletal features in a single setting.
Drew: Gotcha. For someone like that, what can they expect to see after they recover? Can they go workout harder, longer or move more freely? Does it allow them to kind of in a sense, go back in time and feel more like they were when they were a teenager or a 20 year old? Is that kind of what they are looking for?
Dr. Adelson: Well I can only answer that in so far as to when people come to me with problems and pain, because in that case then yes, they function better. If you don’t have a headache, taking aspirin doesn’t help. So, if we are doing it as a proactive measure to help you with longevity, it is indeed theoretical and I can’t prove that it’s going to do anything.
Drew: Sure. Do you foresee this becoming something more common in the future, where it’s more affordable and where it becomes more mainstream? People can come in for specific treatments ….
Dr. Adelson: Well, the full body stem cell makeover is sort of my high end product, but on the opposite end of the spectrum is something I am working on with another group, which is to actually make simpler treatments, like what we just did for you, much more affordable.
Drew: Oh, ok, Gotcha.
Dr. Adelson: To have it available at approximately 30% of the industry standard. I am about two years away, maybe one to two years away from launching that. But stay tuned, because that is on the horizon.
Drew: Gotcha. Yeah, I can only imagine the cost of like exosomes. I have no idea how much that costs, but I am assuming it’s …. the cost adds up, so I definitely see it worth what it costs. I think it is becoming more mainstream, where people are more aware of it and it’s not controversial like it used to be. People are becoming more educated through these types of platforms and I can see it maybe in a few years becoming more mainstream. Where they are like, ‘Yeah maybe before surgery, let’s try this first.’ Super exciting stuff, to be honest with you. Curious to know from you, your perspective, you have had some injuries, do you do stem cells on yourself or do you have someone do that for you?
Dr. Adelson: Oh sure, sure. I originally got into it by having Prolotherapy done on my shoulder. I have a rock climbing injury that was going to sideline me from rock climbing and I wasn’t willing to take no for an answer.
Dr. Adelson: But if you look at most of my friends, we all got into this because we are all athletes and we are not getting any younger and we all want to stay in the game. I plan on kite surfing until I am well into my 80’s. Yeah, I’ve had my hamstrings injected. I’ve had all kinds of things injected over the years.
Drew: Gotcha. Obviously, you are very knowledgeable, what can people do to help prevent …. you know, preventable care, so that they don’t have to do this as often? What are some things from like a bio hackers perspective as far as nutrition, exercise, those types of things to prevent these things from becoming a problem in the future.
Dr. Adelson: Well, I view health as four pillars. So, you have your emotional balance, good nutrition, proper sleep and then exercise. And of exercise, I think weightlifting …. the people I see the least frequently, it’s very unusual for me to see weightlifters in here.
Dr. Adelson: People who lift weights tend to stay healthy, except the ones who chase numbers. That’s really where people run into problems, is when they get obsessed with chasing numbers, that and CrossFit. CrossFit is great when it’s done properly, but I think it can be …. when it’s overdone, there’s a certain exercise where you combine deadlifts with box jumping. That one exercise paid for the down payment on my house.
Drew: *laughing* Really? Did you guys hear that? All you CrossFitter’s?
Dr. Adelson: Yeah! *laughing* So, if you are going to do that, step down, don’t jump down. Because you are taking the deadlift, the king of all exercise’s and then sort of mixing it with jumping down. It’s a real recipe for disaster.
Drew: Yeah, we talked a little about that before this. How back in our prime we were kind of chasing numbers in a way. We were focused on aesthetics and the outward look. We all go through those phases. Luckily I haven’t had any major injuries and you know, you have had some injuries, but nothing that’s too detrimental, where you haven’t recovered from it. But you know, as we grow older, we are like, ‘Ok, I don’t need to bench press 400 pounds or deadlift 600 pounds.’ You become wiser with your body and you want to take care of it. You start realizing that you have kids and you want to live a long healthy life. Your focus kind of shifts, right?
Dr. Adelson: Yes, that’s right.
Drew: What about as far as on the side of nutrition and the other pillars you mentioned?
Dr. Adelson: I liked what you were describing, which is moderation in all of it. The only reason to really follow extreme diets is if you are on a stage and competing, or competing in some other venue. As far as just the long game, like living a long healthy life, I think all of these principles are very helpful. But so is an emotionally balanced life. If your diet is so extreme that it just rules every other aspect of your life, that’s probably not a balanced life.
Drew: Yeah, sometimes I see it cause more stress than it does good for your body. Like measuring everything out and counting numbers and you are freaking out if you go one gram over your carbohydrates. Then you start thinking, ‘This isn’t working, I’m not losing weight.’ Then it becomes consuming and it consumes your life and you become so stressed out about it.
Dr. Adelson: Yeah, those pockets of centenarians in Sardinia aren’t doing that. *laughing*
Drew: Exactly. *laughing* It’s true, you know. I think we put a lot of pressure on ourselves because we think healthy needs to look a certain way because we see these Instagram models that look this way, then we think that’s what health is, when in reality healthy looks different on everybody. Like your healthy, versus my healthy, versus someone else’s healthy, you’ve got to accept that your healthy is going to look different. It’s not about being 5% body fat and sacrificing your health. I see a lot of people that might look good aesthetically, but on the inside they are killing themselves, right? So, I love the idea of the four pillars of health. I think things like emotional health and sleep are overlooked in our society. I think a lot of people think they will sacrifice sleep and I will just focus on exercising twice a day and maybe starve myself to look a certain way for a season. Then they go back to their old ways. So, I think that’s really, really smart. I had another question for you, and I can’t remember what it was now.
Dr. Adelson: We were talking about the cosmetic.
Drew: Yes, the cosmetic stuff.
Dr. Adelson: So, Amy Killen, who you know, and I actually met you through Amy Killen.
Drew: Yes. Yes, that’s right.
Dr. Adelson: Amy comes up and …. I like to just focus all my attention on the treatment of musculoskeletal pain and I don’t want to dilute my efforts. But, we get a lot of requests for cosmetic treatments and also sexual optimization. So, Dr. Killen is …. I just adore her. I love having her around. So, for those people who, while we are going through the process of harvesting your bone marrow and possibly harvesting your fat, opening a vial of exosomes or even multiple vials, and we are injecting your …. whether its a full body mak over or whether we are just doing a knee or it’s a couple of body parts, people can elect to have Dr. Amy Killen here. And she will do injections into the skin of the face and hands or the neck. She will do the scalp injections for thinning hair. She will do the ‘O’ shot and the ‘P’ shot for sexual optimization. These are mostly just …. one of the major mechanisms and action of stem cells, is stem cells, one of the things we know it does when we look at the literature of wound care and how effective stem cells are for wound care management. It triggers the growth of healthy new blood vessels. Aging of the skin of the face and sexual dysfunction, whether its vaginal dryness in women or erectile dysfunction in men, is a function of irregular micro circulation. So, if your able to normalize the micro vascular anatomy, then it’s going to restore health to those tissues.
Drew: It seems like there is almost endless capabilities with this stuff, you know? Like, from a cosmetic perspective or a musculoskeletal perspective, there is endless possibilities with what you can do with stem cells. Which is, in my opinion, makes it so exciting because it can apply to so many people out there listening. It’s like, ‘Oh, I have this issue.” Boom, stem cell therapy is a great way to treat that instead of taking pills or doing surgery, because your doctor is saying you should do it. I love seeing this stuff become more mainstream, so in a way I am really grateful for what you do and coming on the Podcast and educating me and my audience with this type of therapy. I think you can save a lot of people’s lives and their emotional well being as well, versus the traditional route.
Dr. Adelson: Well, you can imagine it’s very rewarding what we do. It’s very fulfilling work, it’s very tangible.
Dr. Adelson: I couldn’t pick up the baby and now I can pick up the baby. I couldn’t go up and down the stairs, now I can go up and down the stairs.
Drew: Yeah, yeah. It’s interesting. Do you or is there any applications in this being used in kids at all? Or has that not been used anywhere in the world yet for treatment with kids?
Dr. Adelson: You know for my applications, which is for musculoskeletal pain, yeah, sure. I don’t do many of them because …. they normally bounce back from injury.
Drew: Yeah, kids are generally ….
Dr. Adelson: This really is a treatment for chronic injury, not so much for acute injury. But for other people who are treating systemic disease, for instance when I visited The Stem Cell Institute in Panama, the major indication and the condition they treat the most frequently is autism.
Drew: Really? Oh, wow.
Dr. Adelson: And the thought there is that autism is a systemic inflammation. And administering stem cells down regulates that inflammation.
Drew: Wow, that’s interesting. I’ve never heard of that indication before.
Dr. Adelson: That is a major indication. Now we don’t treat that, I don’t treat that at all. But I know when I was visiting those guys, they were saying that is probably the number one thing that they treat.
Drew: Really? That is so interesting. That’s what I was talking about. There are so many endless possibilities for this. And autism being so common nowadays, it’s just awesome to know that there are different methods of dealing with it, other than just, here are some prescription pills. There are options for people out there and this seems like a very safe and viable option nowadays. I don’t foresee it getting covered by insurance anytime soon, because of the reasons you talked about. This is really exciting. My hope is that everyone out there listening, you can do your own research, do your own education. Is there a place where people can go to learn about stem cell therapy and its applications, to see if it applies to someone? Where would you recommend someone go to look over it?
Dr. Adelson: Well, our website has a lot of information on the treatment of musculoskeletal pain. That’s DocereClinics.com. For information on treatment of systemic conditions, neurological conditions, autoimmune conditions, all systemic disease, the network that I belong to is The Cell Surgical Network. Their website is StemCellRevolution.com.
Drew: Interesting. And is that owned by a company?
Dr. Adelson: Well, it’s a network of physicians and their website has a lot of information on the treatment of different conditions. They also …. the entire network …. really across the world, mostly the United States, but they have international doctors as well, they tell what their area of specialties are and what they treat.
Drew: Oh, ok. That’s awesome. So, StemCellRevolution.com, we will put that in the show notes. Where can people get in touch with you? You know, social media handles? I know you have a YouTube channel you said, where can people find you?
Dr. Adelson: Right now the easiest is just through our website and then directly to us. We do have a YouTube channel, which is mostly just patient testimonials at this point. Eventually we will get a little more up to speed on that. DocereClinics.com is the best way to get in touch with us.
Drew: Ok, cool. We will have all that in the show notes for you guys listening. Dr. Adelson, thank you so much and I really appreciate it. I will keep you posted on how this heals up.
Dr. Adelson: You bet. Ok.
Drew: Alright you guys, we will see you next time.
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