Epsiode 139 – Noah Kagan

Intro:

What’s up everyone? Welcome to the Fit2Fat2Fit Experience Podcast. It is me, Drew Manning, back with another Podcast episode. I appreciate you guys tuning in. So, really quick, today is day four of a four day fast that I have embarked on. So, it’s my last day and I just wanted to let you guys know that I am doing well. I am still able to function and perform a Podcast. Even with four days of no food, water only, salt and electrolytes and then one cup of black coffee or tea per day. That’s pretty much it you guys and I feel great. But I am ready to eat tonight. So, I did perform this Podcast on an empty stomach with four days of no food. Today’s episode is with Noah Kagan. Noah Kagan, he has an interesting background. Sometimes I like to dive into health and fitness and talk about diet and exercise and nutrition and micro gut biome and brain health and human optimizations, those kinds of things. But every once in awhile, I will get into other topics that interest me. So today is going to be more focused on entrepreneurial life, life of an entrepreneur. So, Noah Kagan, he was number 30 at Facebook, number four at Mint.com. Right now he is the chief Sumo at Sumo.com, which offers free tools to build your website traffic. He is also a top rated Taco connoisseur, believe it or not. So stick around to the end of the episode, if you want to learn where you can find the best taco on the planet. If you are a taco lover, you definitely want to stick around. We also go into his health and fitness routine and how he fits that in as an entrepreneur. As well as all the life lessons he has learned from his failures as an entrepreneur. Because as an entrepreneur, you need to be open to failing. He also talks about the coffee experiment. Now, I am going to do this coffee experiment and I want you guys to listen to what that coffee experiment is and I want you guys to do it with me. Because I am going to do it as well. So, listen to that and then lets do it together, to set ourselves up for failure. But what I mean, is reacting to failure and realizing it’s not as scary as we make it out to be. I want you guys to let me know if your going to do this coffee experiment with me. Now, let’s go hang out with Noah.

Drew: Noah. Welcome to the show, man. How are you doing today?

Noah: Uh, I am doing great. My girlfriend is doing the dishes and I have just been running around in meetings all morning, so it’s nice to sit down and hang out with you. How are you doing?

Drew: I can hear the dishes in the background. It’s good that you have someone doing them for you. I have a nanny that does them, not a girlfriend, so …. Anyways, I am super excited to have you on, man. I really appreciate you making time. So, really quick, I was just doing some Instagram stalking, which is what I do all the time. *chuckles*

Noah: *laughing*

Drew: You recently just got back from Japan. Was that a recent trip?

Noah: Yeah, we got back from Japan last week. Have you ever been out there?

Drew: No. It’s on my bucket list.

Noah: Dude, put that up there. We had an unbelievable experience in Japan.

Drew: Yeah, tell me about it.

Noah: Oh yeah, it’s like Jewish people, we can’t stop talking. You don’t even have to ask me. *laughing*

Drew: *laughing*

Noah: Society is …. it’s an amazing society, man. Like, imagine going …. where do you live, Drew?

Drew: Salt Lake City. Utah.

Noah: Ok, one, I think you guys have a very underrated state. I think in terms of America, you guys have a top ten state that people are like, they never think …. they don’t give you guys enough credit. Which is probably why it’s the underground secret.

Drew: Yeah, yeah, man. I think so.

Noah: I feel like Mormons took over a great state. I’m like, ‘Damn, they got a good one! They didn’t take like, Wyoming, you know?’

Drew: *laughing* Oh, that’s funny man!

Noah: So, Japan. It’s peaceful. There is no honking. So, we went there and we got bicycles and we went on a bike tour and we got bells. The guy is like, ‘Don’t use those bells. It’s just for show.’ It’s unbelievable clean. There is no trash anywhere. Everyone is unbelievably polite. The food is literally some of the best …. some of the best food we had was in the subway.

Drew: Really?

Noah: It depends on what you like when you travel. But for me it’s like, it’s food, it’s the experiences. I think pretty standard stuff. Everything is efficient. I don’t know how it is in Salt Lake. I live in Austin Texas. But everything is on time. I think we are so used to when the bus comes, or Southwest Airlines is delayed. Nothing is delayed in Japan. Anyway, I can go on and on, man. But I would definitely say, if you can prioritize that in the top three of things to go do next, it’s definitely not cheap. I would say that. There is a website called TokyoCheapo.com. It’s a buddy site. It’s not a super cheap city to travel to.

Drew: Yeah. I’ve heard that. I’ve heard all good things about Japan, so that is why it’s on my bucket list. But I was curious to know if it was a vacation, or was it business related? Yeah. You were out there for how long?

Noah: We were out there for two weeks.

Drew: Two weeks. Ok.

Noah: I don’t know if you need travel recommendations, but you guys can hit me up. I mean, it was a pure vacation. We definitely enjoyed ourselves.

Drew: That’s so awesome, man. Thanks for sharing that experience. I will do some more Instagram stalking to see more of the trip. *laughing*

Noah: *laughing*

Drew: But anyways …. I want to start off by introducing you to my audience. They may not know who you are, a little bit about your background, about your story. Because you have an amazing story. I kind of want to start from the beginning of what led you to the path you are on today. What were your passions growing up? I feel like hindsight is always 20/20. We can connect the dots of what led us to where we are today. I was hoping you could do that for my audience.

Noah: Interesting. So, like what stuff was I doing like back in the day that I am still doing now?

Drew: Yeah, or led you down this path that you are on today?

Noah: Whoa ….

Drew: Like, what passions did you have growing up?

Noah: Yeah. It’s funny because you know the first thing that comes to mind is, you know how in schools they always have those fundraisers like, go sell magazines or go sell s**t door to door? I was a fat kid and you get a pizza party if you sold a lot …. *laughing* I was like, ‘I want a pizza party!’

Drew: Mmm Hmm …. *laughing*

Noah: So, I literally would go door to door in my neighborhood, which nowadays people are like, ‘Oh, he is going to get raped.’ You can’t do that stuff anymore. But back in the day, I would go and just sell. I think that’s something that I will always just enjoy doing. Not just selling but, like ‘Hey, I think this is a good magazine, you should sign up for it.’ I think I’ve always been kind of a promoter, in retrospect or in reflection. Like, I have always been promoting things I like. That’s something that I have always done.

Drew: Do you feel like that led you down the path of kind of becoming an entrepreneur? Did you start at that age or did you have like your parents or a mentor kind of lead you down the path of becoming an entrepreneur?

Noah: Yeah, I think success people …. Really is in aspects. Health, fitness, business, everyone needs to find their own measure of success. I think in Instagram, the Instagram life has kind of ruined it where people are thinking like, ‘That photos in Japan.’ Its like, ‘You don’t know. Maybe we had a sh***y time in Japan.’ But we just posted a photo with a nice filter.

Drew: Yep. Exactly. I like that.

Noah: Yeah, I mean I think it definitely influenced it, just like always wanting to sell. I think I was always just loud too, man. I was always like, even in class, every kid sits in a different seat. So, if you think about yourself, when you go to a classroom, did you sit in the front or did you sit in the back? I was the most annoying Jew kid in the front. I raised hands, I always asked questions. When we did groups, I was always saying, ‘Alright, I am going to take charge and here is what we are going to do.’ That kind of like led to a lot of things that I still do to this day. I think in terms of my business stuff, it probably was influenced by my dad the most. He came here from Israel, typical immigrant story. He sold carpets for a long time and eventually started his own copier business. You remember copy machines?

Drew: Yes, yep.

Noah: I remember being a little kid, I don’t know, to be real though, I don’t know if I admired it. Because he would have to lug these hundreds of pounds machines. He would go to these different offices and he was always dirty. He would go and sell copiers, eventually creating a pretty successful copier business. Honestly, one of the cool things I remember, after we did that work, we would go get tacos. We would go to a Mexican Restaurant and get like cheap ass good tacos. So, I don’t know if I admired that type of work, but I think I admired the independence that it gave him, and the flexibility. Like, you can make a bunch of money, and then you kind of call your own shots. Now that I’m talking, I never thought about it but, I think that probably really sparked wanting to create my own business. But I was like, ‘Dude, there is no way I am selling copiers and fax machines.’

Drew: But you saw it as making money to be a vehicle to do cool stuff, stuff that you were really passionate about, right?

Noah: Yeah. I am trying to think of the moment that was more clear to me. Where it was more, I just always kind of wanted to be my own boss. It’s not that I always thought I had the best idea, which I almost never have great ideas, almost never my ideas are great! *laughing* But I just liked the idea that I’d be able to call the shots about what things would be happening. Probably more like in college, where I just started making different business that actually started making money. I was like, ‘Oh s**t, you can actually make money online. You can make money for yourself.’

Drew: Yeah, can we talk about some of those? What were they and how did they do and all that stuff?

Noah: Yeah. I went to Berkeley in California. And at Cal, I just really wanted to get involved in everything. I think in your 20’s, you should just be busy all the time. *laughing* Here is a quick stupid example. Yesterday this kid messaged me on LinkedIn and was like, ‘Yo man. My name is Reshie, I go to UT Austin. Can I take you out for coffee?’ I don’t do consulting, I don’t really do a lot of meetings. Literally a few weeks ago for a charity event, I sold off coffee meetings for $1000 an hour. This kid …. I was like, ‘Sure, I will go out to coffee with you.’ For free! It’s interesting when your in college, people want to help you. When you’re younger, take advantage of that. People are like, ‘Yo, I want you to help on the come up.’ So, in college man, I tried to take advantage of everything. I met everybody. I tried to start businesses and I was experimenting a lot. I think when you are younger, you have more energy and time for doing stuff like that. So, I started …. You know, look at what you have around you. I think a lot of people, what happens when they are struggling to start a business, in health even, in digital business, they read an article about someone who started and they are like, ‘Let me just copy that guy, because it will be easy.’ It’s never as easy as it reads. The Instagram picture is never as good as you think it is. But, think about what you already have access to. When I was in college, I had access to a lot of freshmen. So when I was a senior, I started a consulting business where we went to local restaurants. I said, ‘Hey, let me help you do your marketing on the campus. I’ve got all these kids who will do the marketing for you.’ And so that was called the HFG Consulting. Then one of the guys on the team was, ‘Yo, why don’t we just start a discount card business, because we know all these restaurants. Then we could put them on a card and then sell a discount card on campus.’ That was one of the guys who was an intern idea. So, that became Ninja Card and that ended up doing like $50,000 our first year. When people are starting businesses, look at what you’re already good at. Are you good at health? Are you good in fitness? Are you good in massages? Are you good in cooking? Whatever it is, try to stay in your zone of something you enjoy. But the two things I observe from that time, and I still think about and that is now 15 years later. Two things I still observe is, that you’ve got to persist. A lot of people want to be Instagram famous or they want a business to succeed or they want to get a relationship, but they give up probably right before something happens. They give up right before s**t starts to change. Like, you are at the gym working out …. I know you’re in a fitness podcast …. you’re at the gym and you are working out and you’re like, ‘Why isn’t my …. why don’t I have a big bicep after day one?’ You’re like, ‘B**ch, come on?!’ So after month 12, yeah. So you have to persist …. some of the businesses or things you want. And number two, you’ve go to iterate. I think that’s where a lot of people make mistakes. They are like, ‘Man, I’ve gone to the gym or I’ve worked on my business for five years. I still ain’t making no money.’ I’m like, ‘Why? Because your not f***ing learning. Your not improving on it. Your not iterating.’ So, I think people need to persist in things and then iterate around that. What is working and how do I make that work better to really get these outcomes. So anyways, that’s kind of the businesses I started. I was just doing it because I liked the freedom of it. I liked the creativity and the hustle of it. That led me to get my job at Facebook later in life.

Drew: Yeah and let’s talk about that transition. Did you ever go the corporate route in between this? In between there and Facebook? Did you go to work for somebody else?

Noah: Yeah, man. I don’t know how other people …. I don’t know about you, I’m not sure how you are, but I was always jealous when people had their purpose in life. Like, ‘Yeah, my purpose is to fulfill light and love in the world.’ I’m like, ‘Yeah man, where did you find …. is there a book? Is that in the bible? Because I will read the bible if that is what it will give me.’

Drew: *laughing*

Noah: *laughing* I never had it. I just knew I wanted to start businesses. I liked to hustle. I liked creating things. In college, I didn’t know what to do. Everyone else seemed to know that they should go get a job. In my school, it was like, go work for accounting, go work consulting or go work in banking. I always knew I loved technology, but I didn’t know what else to really do. I just applied for jobs at Phillip Morris, the tobacco company. I applied for jobs at Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Google, which is fortunate. Then by the grace of God, I got a job at Intel. It’s not the hippest company, but it was still in tech, which I appreciated. It was straight cubicle life. It was straight Dilbert. You go inside, there are no colors on the wall. No free food whatsoever, which is ok, I mean I am there to work. Even the work there, man, it’s like, they should fire half the amount of people they have and automate it with Robots or software. Because you know, they are entrenched in their old ways. But yeah, I went corporate for about 14 months. I was going to quit, and right before I quit, there was this Facebook thing. I loved the company. I am already using it a lot. This was back in the day, 2004. So I just applied for a job, like cold. Fortunately, because I was working all these projects in all my spare time, the ones I mentioned earlier, they offered me the job.

Drew: Wow. That was in 2004? That was a long time ago, man. That was back in the day, back when Facebook was pretty much just on the up and coming, right?

Noah: Oh, think of it? It started in 2004. A lot of people that are listening, and for myself, probably my younger self …. a lot of people are like, ‘Well, I want to start a business, but I don’t have any ideas.’ That’s always what people whine about. So, if you don’t have any ideas, that’s fine. Just go look at two things. Go look at the software or tools you are already using all day, and go work for one of them. Or go look at the people you are following all day, and go do things for them. From that, you will learn experience and probably get money and get a job that can lead to a lot of other things. So, that’s what really Facebook was. I was like, it’s either this or I’m going to create my own company. Facebook gave me experience and connections. There was no way I would have been able to even get that, if I started my own thing at the time.

Drew: Gotcha. And what did you do for Facebook specifically and how long were you there for?

Noah: I was there for about 9 months. I got fired. I was a product manager. In different companies, it’s defined in different ways. But at that company, it was basically defining products. Mark had different things he wanted and we basically, more or less, helped them come to reality by working with developers.

Drew: Ok. What did you learn from the whole Facebook experience? It sounds like you enjoyed it, but you got fired from it. So, what was the big takeaway from working for such a big company like Facebook?

Noah: It wasn’t big at the … it’s so ironic ….

Drew: Oh yeah, it wasn’t that big at that time. *laughing*

Noah: No, I joined when it was 30 and I got fired when it was 150. And now they are around 15,000. The irony of the situation is, I remember I was journaling and my friend reminded me of this recently too. There was a meeting with new people, and I remember being like, ‘Man, this company is way too big. I hate this company.’ It was just funny though, that was only at 150 people. Imagine it being at 15,000. I think there are a lot of lessons learned. I put a book out on Amazon, its totally free. You can go search Noah Kagan on it. It has more of the details of the story. There were a lot of different things. One, being around amazing people elevates your game. People, I am sure you’ve heard this too Drew, but a lot of people are like, ‘Oh yeah, I’m around great people.’ I’m like, ‘How you know your around great people is when you feel uncomfortable around them.’

Drew: That’s a good point.

Noah: I think people think they are around great people, but they are not. They are probably around s****y people, they just think they are good. I was literally probably on a daily basis uncomfortable and I felt pretty inadequate, but that also pushed me to really elevate my skills. I would say number two is that when you are working on something, I think that what Mark did that was impressive is that he created such a mission of connecting the world that we worked nonstop. I think it’s just like when you are creating a business or you’re doing something, like even health, what is your purpose? For me, I am studying Hebrew. My purpose is that I want to be able to go speak to my family in Israel one day. It drives me to where I had a class this morning at 9 a.m. and I had a class two days ago and all this other stuff. So I think purpose is good and lastly, probably having or working on something that you want for yourself. I see a lot of people doing businesses or things where I am like, ‘Who are you doing that for?’ I think when you solve your own problems, it’s much easier to stay motivated and to stick with it when your doing it.

Drew: Yeah. Those are some great lessons, to be honest with you. They are definitely very applicable to me and my journey. Going from Fit2Fat2Fit and turning it into a business now and here we are seven years later. I can definitely relate to a lot of things you are saying. So, overall you would say your experience at Facebook was positive? You grew from it, being in uncomfortable situations. But I think that’s how it is in life too, being in uncomfortable situations. Like traveling to foreign countries or learning new languages, forces you to grow. Versus staying in the safe zone and doing what you know is safe and never really growing from that.

 

Noah: Yeah, I mean the problem with that statement, is that I think we know that in theory. Growth comes from change and growth comes from discomfort. But the moment that it’s uncomfortable doesn’t feel good, then we try to correct that discomfort. That’s the hard part. Including myself! Including myself, I’m not perfect at all. I’m just telling you like, the moment your like, ‘Damn this is hard. This is hard. This is hard! I hate it! I’ve got to fix it.’ And that is actually where the growth and change comes from. It’s not like when it’s s**t  we’ve already done before.

 

Drew: Yeah. Gotcha. So, another thing that I want to talk about is your time at Mint.com. You started with them, tell us a little bit about that and how that experience was for you and what you learned from working for that company. Was it a start up when you joined?

 

Noah: Yeah, there were four of us. I think with Mint, it was different learning. Mint was a little bit more corporate, even for a four person company, which sounds strange to say. Mint was a similar …. people have asked me like how have I been able to pick a few companies that have done really well, either creating them or joining them. I think it really, in terms of what I learned, I loved Mint. When I joined Mint, I was like, ‘Oh my god, you guys are going to fix personal finance? I love personal finance. I think it’s amazing and it’s a huge market. Plus you guys are free.’ So, I think that’s with everything I’ve done, it’s like, ‘Yo, this is just what I want.’ So, when we created AppSumo, which is our group on for on Geeks site, I’m like, ‘I just want this software at a deal.’ Or Sumo.com, one of our latest products, which is for growing your email list. I’m like, ‘Yo, I just want to grow my email list. So, let’s give away or build and sell that software.’ I think that’s one of the major takeaways from Mint. I think the other thing that Mint did, a lot of people want to create their own business. I knew when I joined Mint, that the compensation was good, but it wasn’t life changing enough that I had to stay there. It was good. I really appreciated it, but it wasn’t so much that I was like, ‘Oh my god, this is going to change my life.’ So I think the thing for other people out there is, two parts. If your job sucks, number one, what can you do to make your job interesting or fun? Can you change positions? Can you change roles? Can you take a sabbatical? Can you go to a new group? Figure out ways to fix the job. But for me, I knew there wasn’t something else there for me. Then at night, and if you really want to have another business, wake up earlier, stay up later, work on weekends. Most people are weak. I don’t act like I’m better than anyone. But I am just saying, if you really want to have your own business, there is no excuse. I know people who have kids. That’s the hardest one. If you have a kid, that’s just crazy. But still, you have lunch breaks. You have Friday nights. You have to sacrifice Netflix and those other enjoyments for some years to create it. And that was probably the second takeaway, where man I can’t tell you. When I was at Mint, I started making Facebook games. Literally on vacations, I was on vacation in Denver. I was working on the weekends. I was up late talking to guys in the Philippines. I was up before having to go to work at Mint, during lunch break, it was just all the time. If you want it, there is time available. It’s just how are you prioritizing it?

Drew: I love that. So, let me ask you, at Facebook, at Mint.com, these companies, were you successful as far as were you making decent money during these times? And then the next question to go with that, did you feel fulfilled at these jobs? Even though you were successful?

Noah: Well, I’ll tell you my salary. At Facebook, I got promoted actually. I did a pretty good job, so I got promoted to $65,000 a year and .1% equity. Which is, you look at how much Facebook is worth, its worth $500 billion dollars, so .1% of that. Mint.com when I joined, I got 1% of the company and $100,000 cash.

Drew: Wow.

Noah: And I was 25, dude. That was a s**t-ton of money. I was super stoked. But I also knew that I could probably make that much money doing my own thing in a few years, if I just persisted. And I was doing stuff on the side, like I was running conferences and hosting meetups, to meet other entrepreneurs. What was your second question?

Drew: Yeah, where were you at emotionally, like fulfillment wise, even though you were probably working for these successful companies. Other people from the outside might look at you and be like, ‘Oh yeah, that guy is successful.’

Noah: At Facebook, I felt very fulfilled. It felt like everything to me, so when it was taken away and I lost my identity really, I was really low. I had like a scarlet letter. I was so ashamed. How do you get fired from the best company in the world, in my opinion. There was definitely a lot of lack of fulfillment, so how do you get that fulfillment? You know, it’s kind of like a relationship, you’ve got to find another girl. So, Mint to me was able to like, ‘Oh my god, I think your going to change the world, as well. You have all these big plans. And I have a better role and a better salary. A better influence in the company.’ I think with Mint, I knew it was never mine. It wasn’t my thing. So, the amount of fulfillment wasn’t there. That’s probably why I started making things at night and on the side. I think Tony Robbins, I was at one of his events and I thought it was good. He said something that I never forgot. He said, ‘Work without fulfillment, is pointless.’ And I was like, ‘Damn, that is so good.’ Because you know a lot of us aspire to make a lot of money. And unless you have some money …. and I hate when people say this s**t, because I am like, ‘Dude, I just need to make some f**king cash.’ I’m like, ‘Ok, you just work on that.’ But once you make a little bit of money, like $60,000 or $70,000 or something like that, it’s really interesting to start thinking about, is this work fulfilling me. Not even running your own company, I think that is way overrated. Just whatever job you have, like are you getting fulfillment out of it. That’s actually just as important as the money you are going to be making from a job.

Drew: Exactly. Keep going ….

Noah: So for me, I think in my 20’s, I didn’t get the fulfillment as much. I think I was just more fulfilled by making money around it. But when I got into my 30’s and I didn’t just have to focus only on making money, I focused more on like, ‘Alright, how do I fulfill myself through creating companies that really give me meaning?’ I will tell you a quick story about that.

Drew: Ok.

Noah: A lot of kids, and I’m still a kid myself, when I was 25, I was living in Argentina. I made these games at Facebook at night, Facebook games. They did so well that I quit Facebook and I moved the company to Argentina. That was my dream. We should all have dreams. Dreams are great things. So, I moved to Argentina and I was there for about four months. I spend most of the time thinking about what’s the meaning? What’s my purpose? How do I get fulfillment? I spent every day thinking about this. I remember I was in, I think it’s Las Palmas or something, and I am walking on the street and I had this epiphany. I’m like, ‘Oh my god, I figured out the meaning of life. I can’t believe this, this is crazy!’ And I realized that there is ultimately no meaning in life. *laughing* I was a little disappointed, but I was also relieved at the same time to realize that. And then I realized our fulfillment and our meaning is by what ever we create and whatever we are allowed to do.

Drew: Yes.

Noah: Because you know, I was making these games and I was able to pay a salary to myself. I was able to hire people, when I was in Argentina. And I hated it. Because that wasn’t fulfilling to me, but meaning is what you give. There are other people I met, who love it. Making games for them is very meaningful. I think you just have to figure out …. meaning is whatever you want to give it to. So, for me, meaning is creating software or helping promote software, which is what we have been able to do with Sumo group. So that’s why I transitioned out of the game stuff. Create the meaning you want. It’s amazing, right? Like someone could create a fitness program and it have a lot of meaning. And then someone else could create and be like, ‘Yo, this is stupid.’

Drew: *laughing* I’m laughing because it is so true. I see it all the time in my business. You have to remind yourself, you are not going to be able to please everybody, no matter what you do. But, going back to what you were saying, man, that’s so true. I think that is another Tony Robbins quote, ‘Nothing in this life has meaning, except for the meaning that you chose to give to.’ Whatever it is, right?

Noah: I mean, Tony can’t take credit for everything, man!

Drew: I know, but he’s a smart guy and he’s got some great quotes. *laughing* So we are quoting him.

Noah: *laughing* Check out Jim Rohn too. Jim Rohn is a …. Tony learned from and I actually got a lot of enjoyment from Jim’s material. Jim’s got some great books. Have you read Jim Rohn, as well?

Drew: I’ve heard a lot of his quotes as well, too. I haven’t read his stuff yet, but it’s all great stuff. This is all just great life lessons. Pertinent information that your spewing out here, whether you’re an entrepreneur or you are just a mom or dad. Or you are just trying to lose weight or you’re just trying to get healthy. Or you are trying to start a business or whatever it is, these are great life lessons that are applicable to everybody that’s listening. So, I really appreciate it, you are talking my same language here. It’s interesting the whole success without fulfillment piece. There are so many people, I think Tony Robbins even talks about someone like Robin Williams, who is the ultimate view of success from the outside world. It’s like, ‘Oh you’ve got all the money and fame.’ But, the dude ended up killing himself. He was miserable, right?

Noah: Wait, who killed himself?

Drew: Robin Williams.

Noah: Oh, yeah. There are a lot of people who are successful who don’t kill themselves too. He’s just kind of …

Drew: That’s true. So, what I’m saying is, your definition is up to you. Like what is your success? It’s not the outside world, right? You get to find out what your success is.

Noah: And that’s so hard man. Because a lot of what we observe is like …. it kind of …. it should be our compass. Like, if I see someone else’s success it’s more like ok, what does that mean for me? Like two weeks ago, someone posted some stuff about how much money they are making. And I will tell you, like for the whole rest of the day, I was super jealous.

Drew: Really?

Noah: I was like, ‘Oh man, I f***ing hate that guy!’ You know, and then I took time to be like, am I making as much as I want? Am I getting to live the life I want? What am I really bothered about? And it’s like, ok well maybe I’m not as fulfilled with some of the work I am doing for myself. And it was really just coming back to me. So, I think with that, it’s interesting for each of us to create our own definition. To some extinct you’ve got to kind of filter out s**t, if its not healthy for you. If it’s not leading you to your own level of success, like maybe you’re listening to a bunch of motivational stuff that just makes you sad. Or your following people on Instagram or Twitter or Facebook or YouTube that your like, ‘ Aw, I really wish I was that guy. I’m always bummed out when I see his stuff.’ So, just …. I would honestly just unsubscribe from it.

Drew: Yeah. Yeah. That’s great. That’s one thing that I’ve realized too, as an entrepreneur, if people come to you and say, ‘Oh, I hate your stuff.’ We want to take it personally because we think, ‘Oh man, maybe I do suck. Maybe I should change something?’ When in reality, that’s just that person’s perception of you. Or that person’s perception of themselves, like there is something that is internal that they are manifesting on you. So just realize that it has nothing to do with you. Because then the next day you’re going to get a hundred positive comments like, ‘Thank you so much, you are changing my life. You’re doing this for me.’ Like you said, with the Facebook games, those are fulfilling to some people and you’re serving a purpose for other people. So, I love that, man.

Noah: Dude, it’s so true. I remember talking to the game maker. I hated games. I hated the game players. And he was like, ‘I love the games!’ I’m like, ‘Oh my god!’ So, its interesting observation. Its funny, real quickly, Drew. I have a Podcast as well and I update it once a month. Someone emailed me and said, ‘Hey, I was going to email you this but, your stuff sucks. The editing is average. It’s all about money and yourself. You don’t care. Stop drinking, drink some tea.’ I was like, ‘Oh’ Everyone’s got their own stuff, so it is interesting when we put on others. Yeah, it is true. I was like, ‘Why would he email that to me?’

Drew: It’s good man.

Noah: It’s good to have the people you care about giving you feedback, just on a side note. Like there are people, like whoever you like that really challenges you and believes in you and knows you. Take their feedback. It’s funny man, I think what I’ve noticed in our society, it’s so easy to hate. But it’s so hard to create. Right? I was at a new restaurant last night. This takes literally probably a million and a half bucks to make the restaurant. It took 18 months at least to get the permits and all the hiring and all the menus and recipes. Then these punks go on Yelp, f***ing punks, and go, ‘Oh yeah, I didn’t really like the crème fresh on it. I thought the margarita could have used more salt.’ I’m like, ‘You open a restaurant then!’ It’s just amazing to me how we jeopardize and we put people out of business. Some businesses they need to improve and hopefully they iterate. But yeah, its just kind of interesting about feedback.

Drew: Yeah, it is. It takes a lot of self reflection to appreciate something like that. Like what goes into the building of a restaurant, versus focusing on the end product. How does this food make me feel? If it’s not up to my par, then the whole business should be shut down. I see what your saying, that’s great advice.

Noah: I was just going to say one thing in general though, I think that last part. I was just thinking about it. It’s just really feedback is so great. One of the guys who works at Sumo.com emailed me yesterday and said, ‘What are some things you like that I’m doing and what do you want me to improve on. What material, books, blogs, videos that I should go read.’ I just think for everyone out there, including myself, I’m not better than anyone. Is if you ever want to get better, go to someone who is going to give you honest feedback. Either your boss, your friend, your significant other. If you get feedback, you will generally keep improving. You’ll keep being a better person and you will get more of what you want. But you have to be proactive, asking for the feedback. That is just interesting that he did that. I think everyone should text someone, right now if you want. I think you should. Like, ‘Yo, how can I improve myself?’ You will be surprised at what you’re going to learn.

Drew: That’s true. That’s good man. That’s good. That’s a good lesson as well, man. You are just a wealth of knowledge today, man. I appreciate that. *laughing*

Noah: *laughing*

Drew: Ok, I want to shift gears and talk a little bit about health and fitness. What your view on health is and where you’re at with that as a busy person. What is your perception of health maybe versus where it was as a teenager? Because I know my perception has totally changed over the years. But I am curious to know about yours.

Noah: Yeah, as a teenager, I don’t know if I thought about health. I know my mom was healthy, ‘quote-unquote’ where we had margarine and diet cokes. We always had turkey loaf’s instead of meat loafs. We never really had red meat and stuff like that. I think my perception of health has really changed from really early 30’s to now. I didn’t realize how much it affected my energy levels. I was like, ‘Oh s**t, this is like … ‘ And also, it’s like your self esteem. I didn’t really in my 30’s …. I got dumped by my girlfriend, because I was hungover and I was overweight. She was like, ‘Your a slob.’ This was on a bike ride and the next day I was like, ‘Damn, she’s right!’ Yeah, so it’s interesting at how much it is the foundation of everything we do. It’s our system, it’s our computer. So yeah, definitely been more aware. I wouldn’t say I’m great at all, but I’m a work in progress.

Drew: Yeah and so what are some of your health and wellness and fitness routines that you implement into your lifestyle now?

Noah: One thing I would just highlight, what’s interesting for me, I think, is it’s changed every year. So, each year I am evolving. I’m not staying the same. Some stuff stays the same. My breakfasts are pretty much egg white and a protein shake or egg white and some meat. For a lot of years, when I started out, I didn’t do anything. I just did eating healthy, which is the most important part. Then I started running and then I started lifting weights. Then I was trying to do really hard core bodybuilding. And then where I am at today is, I just got bored going to a gym everyday. I just got bored. It really felt like I was in a jail cell with all these sweaty dudes. Like, ‘Hey man, lift up that weight and put it down. Lift it up again.’ I was like, this is what I am doing all day? So where it is now is, I do like the aesthetics of body building, like I want to look strong. So, I body build twice a week and then the other parts of the week, I want be more mobile. Because I don’t think bodybuilding is not …. you are not as agile as I would like to be. So I do boxing class, which I love. I started adding swimming, so I do those each once a week. Then the rest of it, for cardio, I don’t like the idea of being on a treadmill, that seems retarded to me. I’m like, ‘Yo, where are you going? You are not going anywhere!’ So, I like generally functional or active cardio, so either basketball or biking or mountain biking. So, I do that probably 3-5 times a week.

Drew: Gotcha. I love that. I love what you said about year to year it changes and it evolves, you upgrade. Depending on your goals and how you feel. Because back in the day, the reason I brought this up is my perception of health and fitness was yeah, I want to look like that dude in the magazines. I want to look like Arnold and these other people out there, so I am just going to beat my body up to look that way. But then I realized, as I’ve gotten older, like it’s cool to look that way, but it’s not what brings ultimate fulfillment. Kind of like what we were talking about.

Noah: Dude, true! Dude! Man, it’s so crazy you said that. One year my goal was to get to 200 pounds and then get back to a six pack. I did it and I remember when I had the six pack, I was so miserable. I was like, I don’t feel good. I am not happy with this. I don’t even care how I look. I’m glad I accomplished it. But it was so interesting about what we think will make us happy versus what actually makes us happy. I think one of the things I’ve really come to realize, besides health and fitness and diet as a habit now, is it should be fun. Like for me, boxing is an amazing workout, but it’s not a workout. I’m going and learning how to punch people and getting punched. It’s fun for me. Same with biking, and I think the more people can kind of look at health that way, they get all the benefits of it, but they are actually always looking forward to it a lot more.

Drew: Yeah, I agree 100%. I think that’s what has changed for me over the years, is helping people with their perception of exercise and fitness. Some people are like, ‘Look, the gym sucks. It’s so hard.’ Then my advice is to find something that doesn’t seem like a workout. Something that doesn’t feel like you have to punish yourself to go and do it. Something that’s therapeutic and you love, whether its a walk or a hike, swimming or biking. Whatever it is, there are tons of physical activities where your body is in motion that doesn’t have to feel like, ‘Oh, I got to do 3 sets of 10 and I am so tired at this point.’ You know?

Noah: *laughing* I have a friend, Adam, who works in the fitness thing as well, my body tutor. You also have to know yourself. He loves doing the same routine. Every week, he eats the same s**t. Do you know what he had for breakfast today? Egg white, blueberries and a chocolate protein shake. You know what he’s going to have for breakfast tomorrow? Same s**t. You know what he has for dinner? Chicken and broccoli. You know what he’s going to have next, chicken and broccoli. His life, that works for him.

Drew: Yeah, that’s his thing.

Noah: That is his thing. I think with fitness and health, I think people miss out that think I have to fit this mold. I think what I have done my best, is fit your own lifestyle. So for me, I do like to drink, so I have to figure out …. well, like tonight I am going to a thing. So, ok, well let me go put in a workout or let me go put in some cardio. Or I know that I do travel, so you just have to kind of accommodate and adjust. For me, I don’t want to do body building all the time. So that’s where I started adding in CrossFit or now lately it is boxing and swimming.

Drew: Yeah. What about, as an entrepreneur, do you have to travel a lot and if so, how do you stay healthy on the road? What are some of your tips for trying to stay healthy on the road? If that is what you choose to do.

Noah: You know what is interesting? Sometimes it’s hard because for me, when I travel, food is a big thing. Like when I go to a new city, I want to find a good restaurant or I want to find the latest place that is popular. I also want to try some of the cocktail bars. So, two things I have done lately, I actually try to find hotels that have built in gyms versus a near B&B. Or I will look for a gym ahead of time. I will have my assistant be like, ‘Yo, I am going to stay here, where is the gym I am going to be going to?’ I think one thing that is kind of nice, is how can you control your mornings? An egg is an egg, I have never found an egg that exciting. So, if you can make your morning really boring and healthy and nutritious, then your evening and later is a lot better for you to go wild. So a thing I will do is, I don’t eat the airplane food. Never eat airplane food. So if I am on an airplane, I will never eat nuts or whatever the hell Southwest is giving. I always try to bring my own snacks on the airplane. That’s about most of it, man. What I do more than that is before I travel, every week, I plan what activities for health and fitness I do. So like, I will pull it  up right now. So this week in my health and fitness, I have my workout stuff already set in the calendar. So if I am traveling somewhere, I already know it’s on the calendar and I am going to do it. So try to plan that stuff out ahead of time, because it gets hard when you get somewhere and it’s exciting. One thing too, and I thought about this a lot and I talked to my buddy Adam about it too. But if you are on vacation, you’re on vacation. I work out and be healthy 50 weeks of the year, so I can enjoy those two weeks. I can go a little crazy. I think the part I have to work on, is not feeling guilty about it. I’m like, I work out and eat healthy all the time. So if I go out somewhere, I can enjoy myself.

Drew: What are some of your biggest failures in your life that you’ve learned the most from?  I know that’s kind of like a huge question. But maybe you can think of one or two failures, looking back on it now. Hindsight is like, wow. I learned the most from this experience and I am grateful for this failure. Does that make sense?

Noah: Yeah. I failed so often. *laughing*

Drew: *laughing* We all do.

Noah: I think with the fail message stuff, like Facebook, I failed. Mint I quit probably too early. In relationships, I’ve been cheated on, I’ve cheated. Probably missed out on business deals I should have done otherwise. I think the biggest thing with any of the failures, I mean they are all …. it’s interesting to hear. And I think they are somewhat glorified a little bit. But the biggest thing for everyone, is everyone has s***y day. The person listening might have a sh**y day or month or whatever it is. The biggest thing I try to remind myself, and it’s hard when it’s not feeling good, is that well what can I learn from this to make the future better? That’s really what it is at the end of the day. You’re going to have a sh**y  day, it’s inevitable. Something bad is going to happen. Someone is going to quit your company. You are going to get fired. This girl is going to reject you, but how can you learn from that and make the future better? I can’t say I’m perfect at it, that would be against the purpose of it. But how do I keep with that mindset of what can I learn and how can I make the future better? I try to keep that mentality when failure happens. Because failures happen ….. even yesterday. What did I get rejected on yesterday? I think I was asking for a discount somewhere and I think they said no and I was like, ok, well how can I make sure this happens better in the future? Just like all day long. One thing I got known a little bit for is, I started encouraging people to do failure challenges. Like go out and fail and experience failed stuff. Like coffee challenges is probably the most notable one. Have you heard of that one?

Drew: No, can you tell us about that one?

Noah: I will tell people, but look, if you’re listening to this right now. Say you are going to do it or not do it. You’re not going to hurt any feelings. You’re not going to disrespect a loved one. Just say yes or not, because if you commit to it, and then you do it, you will grow a lot. So, will you do it? Yes or no? Drew, will you do it?

Drew: Uhhh …. wait, can I find out what it is first? *laughing*

Noah: No, you just have to say yes or no.

Drew: Ok, yes. I promise I will do it. Like 100%, I will post it on Instagram stories.

Noah: Yes, oh my gosh, that’s awesome. Maybe in your follow up next episode, you can mention in the beginning if you did it or not. So, what the coffee challenge is, and it’s stupid. It’s not even hard, but it is hard. The next time you buy anything, ideally at Starbucks or you get a coffee, something you are going to do is ask for 10% off.

Drew: Ok, I can do that.

Noah: I know that sounds so stupid. It sounds so basic. Your like, ‘Ok god, this guy obviously has no idea what he’s doing.’ Which most of the time, I don’t.

Drew: Yeah. *laughing*

Noah: But what I realized through teaching people and encouraging people to do that is, that when you actually go and do that challenge, you realize that one, that failure is not that bad. Because you are getting rejected. It’s basically …. I’ve talked to a lot of people who are like, ‘Dude, that’s nothing. I would easily do that.’ And then I go with them, and when they do it, they are scared.

Drew: *laughing* That’s so funny.

Noah: It’s funny because my brother was like that too. He’s like, ‘Aw, that ain’t nothing. That ain’t nothing.’ Then when I went there, he’s like, ‘Uh, can I have 10% off this purchase?’ They are like, ‘Why?’ He’s like, ‘Uh …. I don’t know?’ And so, it’s not about getting a discount. It has nothing to do with that. It’s about challenging yourself, getting rejected and realizing it’s not so bad and then moving forward.

Drew: I love that, man. They should do that in elementary school, from a very young age. Because what it is, is just training your brain to realize that it’s not as scary as what your mind makes it out to be. It’s like, ‘Alright, yeah that wasn’t that bad. But to do that from a young age? Like before boys become teenagers, pretending asking girls out, or even ask them out. Then failing and getting rejected all the time and so that way, when they are a teenager, they are used to it. They are not scared of it. Honestly, for me, I’m thinking back for me as a kid, that would have been awesome. So, this stuff you’re talking about is great advice. I promise I will do the coffee challenge. I’m actually hoping the dude will give me 10%. I’m going to have to come up with a reason if they ask me why. *laughing*

Noah: It’s funny because I came up with that, probably like four years ago. And I did it, I still do it. I still ask for 10% off a lot of things. Oh yes, I was getting a helmet and I was like, ‘Yo, could we get 20 bucks off this? ‘ We actually got it. But what’s interesting is you get rejected and what you realize is we’re going to die anyways, it’s not that big of a deal. If you think of it like fitness, it’s a rejection muscle. So, you don’t have fear about these things anymore and then you can keep going for bigger and bigger things.

Drew: I love that, man. That’s such great advice. We are coming up on time here. I just want to ask you, really quick, what are your top 2 or 3 books, or do you read books?

Noah: Yeah, I read a s**t-ton of books.

Drew: Awesome. So, what are like your top two books that have just totally shaped your life, then the most influential in your life? I know it’s hard.

Noah: Oh. It’s hard to think of books that have shaped, right? Because I think right now we are in a day where people read blogs and Instagram and they easily get like …. steroids. It’s like a temporary bump, but its not actually sustainable. I think for me, it’s like well, what books do I still think about today? Number one book, I will just give you a new book that’s more recent, which is called “A Million Miles In A Thousand Years” It’s always books that no one has heard of, and that’s why I like talking about it. By a guy named Donald Miller and the book is more about, it’s a little religious, which I am not. Just to give your crew an idea, ‘Oh, it’s a religious one, what the hell?’ No. The reason I love the book is that it is more about how you can create an interesting life, right? I think all of us want to live a good life. It’s his journey and his experiences of creating his own interesting life. I think it was just so applicable, because it made me think about am I around interesting people? Am I doing interesting things? And if I am not, then let me go do that. So, I really like those. What else do I always think about? I think from a general life advice, Stephen Covey’s “Seven Habits”. Most people, if you have, I would say reread it. If you were like, ‘Oh, I’ve read that one.’ Reread it. It’s like if you have a good wife, you don’t try to get a new wife, you keep your wife. So, if you have a good book, go reread that book. That’s a great book. On the marketing stuff, anything by Seth Godin. Seth Godin for marketers is the truth. And on the fitness one, I would say fitness is kind of one I don’t think people talk about anymore. A few years ago, it was really popular. It’s called “Mindless Eating”. Have you ever heard of that one?

Drew: Hmm, interesting. No, I haven’t.

Noah: Yes, I got you!

Drew: I know what it is. I know what mindless eating is. I do it all the time.

Noah: So, Mindless Eating is literally you feel like, look I don’t care where your diet is, he’s a research scientist from the East Coast. His whole book is literally just like, here are exact things you should do so you don’t mindless eat. Like, don’t bring candy out, right? Leave chips, like if you get chips from Costco, never eat chips from the bag. Put them in a bowl so you know exactly what you eat. Always use smaller plates. It’s not like, eat with your right hand instead of your left. It’s not stupid s**t like that, but it’s like ways you are not just adding extra calories. Like here is a simple one, when I go to Trader Joes, they always have these free damn samples, and it’s like …. like the other morning they had a muffin. That is the mindless stuff you don’t even count in your day. But that is the stuff where you’re like, ‘Why am I chubby?’ I just love that he has a s**t-ton of tactics and strategies to be able to not mindless eat as much. I probably don’t even realize how many I am probably still doing. Like, here is another one. Don’t leave food out, put it away in the cupboard. Because if you see it, and you’re seeing it all day long, you are tempted to do it. But if it’s away, you have to actually go and make an effort to think about it. I forgot about that, I still do that too.

Drew: No, those are awesome stuff. Those are awesome stuff. I think it’s a huge issue that a lot of us have. We are on the phone eating, just scarfing it down as quickly as we can. Boom, move on to the next thing. Oh, I have no idea what I just ate. You know, or not being there present in the moment. I love that. I love that type of advice. Thank you for that. I am actually writing all these books down. Last question for you, I know your a self proclaimed Taco connoisseur.

Noah: I am.

Drew: Where is your all time favorite taco? Let us know, where is the best taco on the planet?

Noah: Yeah, best taco on the planet is going to be Tacodeli in Austin Texas. So, it’s going to be the cowboy taco. And look, I don’t discriminate. There are a lot of great tacos in the world. San Diego has got amazing stuff. Europe, surprisingly has got some good stuff. Australia does not, they suck at their taco game. *laughing* I tried a lot over there. But yeah, Austin Texas, Tacodeli, Cowboy taco, man. That’s probably one of the reasons I stayed here so long.

Drew: And I wrote that down too, because I am headed out to Austin at the end of the month for Paleo Fx, so I am going there, man. I am going to Instagram story that too for you, Noah.

Noah: I am going to go put you as my first message to follow.

Drew: *laughing* Noah, I just want to say thank you for coming on and sharing your knowledge. I appreciate what you do for a lot of people. I know you have impacted a lot of people out there and so keep doing what you are doing. I really appreciate you taking the time to come on my Podcast.

Noah: Dude, I really appreciate you having me. You can check me out on Instagram, Noah Kagan. I will be posting photos of Drew on my own Instagram.

Drew: *laughing* And where else can people find you, other than Instagram?

Noah: Yeah, so our company, check out our two major products. If you have an online business and you want to grow up, Sumo.com for email marketing and then AppSumo.com for daily deals. Check me out at Instagram, Noah Kagan, or my Podcast. I have one I put out once a month, where I just kind of ramble on. It’s pretty boring, but you will love it.

Drew: What’s it called?

Noah: Noah Kagan Presents. I basically find people I am interested in or products and I just reach out to the founders to share their stories.

Drew: Cool. Love it, man. We will have all that in the show notes. Once again Noah, thank you for coming on. I really appreciate it.

Noah: Drew, thank you for having me. You know what, before we go. Can I ask the last question to you?

Drew: Yes.

Noah: You know what, how did you get so big? Like how long have you been doing this? Like how did you …. it was never a secret, but how did you get so big? What’s the story?

Drew: Wait, is this …. do you want this on the Podcast? Or no?

Noah: It’s your show, dude. I’m just a guest.

Drew: Well, we will put this on the Podcast. Ok, how did I get so big? Like physically? Because I don’t feel like I am that big physically. Like I am 6’2, but like 195. I wrestled and played football from a very young age. Always been in shape, but until I did Fit2Fat2Fit. So that was my journey of purposely gaining 75 pounds in six months. So, I stopped exercising, legit got fat. Gained 76 pounds in six months of pure fat. It was a very humbling experience, taught me a lot. Then I lost it in the next six months. I was very fortunate, very blessed to get back to fit. Since then, I’ve just been kind of maintaining it. But I have gone through this hardcore bodybuilder phase, hardcore Crossfit phase, to like where I am now is very similar to you. Like, I will swim once a week. I’ll do CrossFit like maybe once a week. I’ll slow heavy lift, like bodybuilding style, but then I will also run. Like, I just did a Triathlon, my second ever Triathlon of my life in Hawaii a couple of weeks ago. I survived, I did awesome. I like to be able to do things that, you know, I never could have done. That’s kind of where I am at now, mentally. The results, like the body, will follow. But I do these other things that get me out of my comfort zone and push my body. My goal isn’t to have 5% body fat and look the best. If that happens, cool. I like to look good, don’t get me wrong. But I like to be fulfilled in my life now and that includes exercise.

Noah: Yeah, it’s interesting, because it should be fun. I think sometimes as fitness stuff, people think, ‘It sucks, it sucks!’ And I’m like, ‘I enjoy some it, man.’

Drew: It’s true man, life is too short.

Noah: Do you remember how you got the idea for the Fit2Fat2Fit?

Drew: Yeah, man. It was kind of like a lightning bolt moment, but basically what happened was I had clients who were overweight. They would tell me that I didn’t understand what it was like. They told me I didn’t understand how hard it was for them. Because I was like, ‘Dude, why is it so hard. Just put down the soda, go to the gym. You do the workouts and you follow the meal plans. It’s not that hard. You just do it.’  Then they would have trouble staying consistent and I would get frustrated. They would tell me, ‘Drew, you don’t understand. For you, it’s easy. It’s been easy your whole life, because you have always done that. For me, for us, it’s hard.’ So, I kind of took that to heart. Then boom, this lightning bolt moment of this idea of, ‘What if I got fat on purpose and documented it on YouTube and my website? I wonder if that is what I need to do?’ I felt like I was being called to it. So basically, that’s where the idea came from.

Noah: What was the best stuff you ate during that process? Were you like, ‘Oh s**t, I wish I could just do this all day?’

Drew: Cinnamon Toast Crunch, twice a day, morning and night. And then Mountain Dew, like 2 or 3 Mountain Dews and then these things called Zingers. They are like Twinkies, but with red coconut on the outside. Those were so good. I don’t know why, but those were like my three go to, were Cinnamon Toast Crunch, Mountain Dew and Zingers. *laughing*

Noah: Do you think there is something there for all business or all people, to pick some kind of unique angle? Because you run with it, right? You created it and now your whole thing is about that.

Drew: Yeah, 100%.

Noah: So, like what is your ….. I don’t say it’s a gimmick, but angel, right? Like every musician has a different voice sounding thing.

Drew: Yeah. For me, like the niche in the fitness …. fitness is so saturated. It’s like, how are you different, right? And for me, from Fit2Fat2Fit, what it does or what it did, was create this brand of empathy. Like an empathetic person that understands where people are coming from. So empathy, respect and a better understanding is what I’ve kind of branded my …. or my brand around. It kind of spills over into my Podcast, my TV show, where now I coach other trainers through this process. So that they can kind of learn the lessons I learned. And in my book, in my coaching and in all my platforms, it is to really try to bring in this side of empathy to health and fitness. Which is usually like, ‘No excuses, just push harder. Stop being a wuss.’ That type of mentality. It’s like ok, let’s try to figure this out from a mental and emotional perspective. Because that is where people struggle, it’s not the meal plans or the workouts. We all know that. But why can’t people follow this on a consistent basis? Almost 9 times out of 10 it’s because of the mental and emotional challenges that people face. That emotional connection to food is so much more powerful than we think. So, I am kind of trying to bring light to that, if that makes sense?

Noah: Yeah. It’s interesting. I think your like, ‘Yo, let me show you how to do it.’ I do think it does take some type of message for you to send out. It’s funny, there are so many different restaurants in our city, where I live in Austin. I’m like, it’s hard to stand out. You’ve got to pick something to stand for.

Drew: Yeah, I love that, dude. You’ve got to find your niche. It doesn’t matter if it’s a saturated market. It’s always going to be a saturated market, you know, for the most part. There are different people, like we were saying before, not everyone is going to be able to relate to my voice. Some people think I suck and some people think I am amazing. Don’t be afraid to jump into a saturated market. Especially if you have a voice or a passion, something you want to bring to the table. There are going to be people out there, I promise you, that are going to be able to relate to you. They can’t relate to these other fitness model type people. Find your niche. If you are passionate about it, then the results of success will follow. If you stay persistent, kind of like what you were saying.

Noah: Why do you think most people don’t persist with health? Like, when they just kind of revert back to the other way of living?

Drew: Honestly, it’s their perception of it. They think they have to live that type of bodybuilder life, where it’s like chicken and broccoli every single day. Go to the gym and three sets of 10. I think that’s …. people get burnt out of it. They want it, they want to live this life. They want to go on vacation and not feel guilty about food, right? They want that, but at the same time they want to look like the Instagram model, but they don’t want to do the work that requires that. So, I think that’s what it is. It is helping people find their happy balance of, ‘Hey, I am ok with eating healthy 70% of the time, but 30% of the time I want to enjoy my life. I don’t want to be that fitness model. Even though I tell myself I do and I get burnt out after 30 days.’ I think that’s the problem with it. People think it is to be all or nothing, when in reality it’s just find your happy balance. Find your version of healthy, not this Instagram model of healthy. Find your version of healthy. Your healthy is going to look different on your body than my version of healthy. And that’s ok, it doesn’t have to be 5% body fat or less and the rest of you guys are worthless or lazy. Things just change with people’s perception.

Noah: Yeah, that’s interesting. Yeah, it is funny because you watch …. I was following a lot of different

fitness people on my Instagram. But you need to follow all the people that are like, I don’t know, at least keep it real. I follow more mountain bikers now and less people that are just showing their body off all day. But you know, it was helpful during the time period. We evolve, right? This period is just looking at fit foods all month online. ‘Oh, look at that broccoli, oh yeah! Salt that broccoli.’ *laughing*

Drew: Exactly.

Noah: Now, I don’t look at food anymore. I don’t know, it just becomes more habitual.

Drew: Yeah, yeah. Well, anyways man. I am going to run. I’ve got one more Podcast.

Noah: Do your thing, brother.

Drew: Dude, I really appreciate it and I’ll be seeing you on social media and hopefully our paths will cross soon.

Noah: Yo, I’ll catch you on the flip side.

Outro:

Hey everyone. Thank you so much for listening to this episode on the Fit2Fat2Fit Experience Podcast. I really, really, appreciate all the support you have shown me throughout all the years. If you love the Podcast, then please go subscribe to the Podcast on ITunes. And also, if you love the Podcast, please leave us a review. It definitely helps out with rankings, which means more people listening to this Podcast when they see it. And feel free to reach out to me on Social Media at Fit2Fat2Fit or at Fit2Fat2Fit.com with suggestions or comments or concerns. Anything that you guys think that I could do to make this Podcast better for you. I definitely want to bring the highest quality content to you. The most value, because I know you are investing 30-50 minutes per day when you listen to the Podcast. So I really appreciate all the support and like I said, go follow me at Fit2Fat2Fit on Social Media, if you want to reach out to me with any comments, questions or concerns. Thank you guys so much and we will see you guys back here next week on the Fit2Fat2Fit Experience Podcast.